UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories SS & SA Uniform Forum flatwire "big foot eagles" origins of, comparisons

i notice the thread that developed under "waffen ss uniform" contains some great info for newbie collectors. is it possible to compare some of these as john did, in a new thread? i ask because newbs such as myself may not be able to find this topic because it is under that thread. john, i know you posted your pics, and opinions, but i am not a moderator that can move those pics to this one.
this is what i would like to know:
the origins of "bigfoot eagles"
comparisions of fake vs real
can fake ones pass the "blacklight test?"
if no one wants to post i understand, but there was alot of info in that thread, and i wanted some senior collectors to talk about them. without your knowledge, opinions, us younger guys cannot pass the torch!
now lets have a beer, and talk about them, OK?
i dont want this to be a heated debate, just a educational topic please!
i think this thread itself could be a great reference guide in comparision of real eagles versus fake ones.

Hi Paul."Bigfoot Eagle" simply refers to a specific repro BeVo SS cap/sleeve eagle.I personnaly had never heard the term anywhere until it was used on this forum.I always refered to these as "repro".These specific were given the name (I am assuming) because of the appearance of the area where the bird sits on the wreath.An original BeVo SS eagle clearly has a set of talons clasping the wreath....these "Bigfoot" repros simply have what appears to be spread feathers contacting the wreath.These are very common repros and can be aquired through just about any repro site or catalog.Redddicks Militaria catalog has a selection of these.All varieties.....standard BeVo,Officers Flatwire(silver metallic),Fall camo,Spring camo,etc.So you see they are not just specifically of the "Flatwire" variety.They are not copies of an original variation....simply bad repros.Hope this helps you some.

below is the officers "bigfoot" as Dave said above its a name used by collectors, the example below is one of the early ones they have been copied more than once

this is again a early examples of the fake here a tropical example

Thanks Dave,
i guess what i meant was to compare pics of eagles in members collections that are close to original, and to discuss the different weave patterns, originals versus good fakes based on members own collections, and observations, or any "tricks" members know off, as it seemed to be some great info at the end of that thread.

there we go woody! thats what im talking about!
you must of posted while i was responding!

the early examples are woven with cotton (instead of rayon) but the welt contains nylon, the threads you can pull out from the welt will burn the threads that you cannot pull out will melt, notice the blob top right

These have been around for sometime too, as far as I can remember.Ive encountered them everywhere. When you think about it, what case of TR items at a local swapmeet didnt contain a "bigfoot" or a "cokebottle" along with a set of metal cap devices and the SS RZM butterfly knife and Hitler pocket knife.

do you mean "cokebottle" as in pin back design?
lol try not to laugh too hard fellas!

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Horton:
do you mean "cokebottle" as in pin back design?
lol try not to laugh too hard fellas!

paul,
john means this type of eagle
cheers
gary

Hi Gary,dont suppose you have a picture of the fake flatwire officers eagle that has the fat body and long wings?

I'm getting an education this is what the forum is suppose to be about.Thanks to all who contributed.

Ed,
thats what i wanted to do, was learn some stuff, lol what a dumb ass i am, now i know, the whole time it was right there in front of me...now, is the "cokebottle" eagle body allways a fake>?
i notice on the above pic he has the bottle look, yet his claws are not as "bigfoot" as the others.
thank you guys so far, i hope more members will add as we go. also, do these always glow under uv light?

Here is a real one compare. Not all fakes glow you can find non glowing ones but the material is synthetic.The "cokebottle" is called that because of the long skinny neck note also it only has one claw.Compare the chest area as well.This is a very nice example,I prefer the bullion ones but this one came my way so I grabbed it.

Closeup of head.

This is an original SS officers bullion eagle.

Here is an original flatwire eagle on a tunic.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnPic79:
Hi Gary,dont suppose you have a picture of the fake flatwire officers eagle that has the fat body and long wings?

John,
yes i do these are early fakes and are of Austrian origin, there are woven with silver plated copper wire

but with age they go like this

original flatwire, this one is a true BeVo wupp example

I call that fat one the "football" eagle. There was a thread on MCF, where one guy swore up and down that these were real. Kevin posted a picture of himself torching one in his BBQ! Then the other guy says "LOOK at him destroying an original eagle, just to not loose this argument"! Hah! That was a classic...John and Kevin might remember that thread.

close up of head area

2nd officers i know you have already posted these examples john, just these are clearer shots, one used one mint :-)

got the head shot mixed this is from the first mint example

Gary, As far as repro's go, we've seen the "Big Foot", the "Coke Bottle" and the "Football" posted here. Are these the three most prolific silver wire repro's?

quote:

Originally posted by Johann:
Gary, As far as repro's go, we've seen the "Big Foot", the "Coke Bottle" and the "Football" posted here. Are these the three most prolific silver wire repro's?

Johann,
I think big foot is the most prolific, it still fools people today so does the one collectors call coke bottle, these are old fakes, but not as old as the Austrian type that is silver plated i am just not going to call it a name, sorry :-), they later altered the style of these to the example below, then they altered them again small detail but there was not step down on the neck feathers and they changed the wire for the officers type from round wire to flat type of wire

this is the later style, these and the one above have been copied more than once

Woody the welt with the threads that melt, is that on an original or repro.
John or Woody what model is this one I can't tell because the stitching was pulled coming off a tunic. Sonny

Here is a different version, close to the first real one Gary posted.
There are for sure some different versions of the original flat wire eagles.
/Felix

quote:

Originally posted by Sonny:
Woody the welt with the threads that melt, is that on an original or repro.

Sonny,
The fake bigfoot, in this case the tropical example i posted

quote:

Originally posted by Felix:
Here is a different version, close to the first real one Gary posted.
There are for sure some different versions of the original flat wire eagles.
/Felix

Felix,
your eagle is like the first one i posted, it looks slightly different but to me its the same eagle,
slight differences can be caused by many reasons, these eagle were not always made on the same loom, some machines were older than others so while they may use the same set of cards the finished product can be slightly different due to tensions and speed and how the machine functioned, also the number and type of threads used, yours look like they have used more aluminium thread than mine from the photo, it looks like they have used 2 stands on yours where as my example only has 1 this also will affect the finish, below is the back of your eagle notice the thick cord on the top, notice also how it seems to strain around the head of the eagle, I will post the back of my first example below this picture, I can tell you the bed on the machine your eagle is woven on is narrower that the machine that was used to weave my example.

to be sure i would need to see bigger scan though

my first example

take this eagle for example notice the top of the head

close shot

it should look like this, sorry this is scanned through glass

the reason is on the back

Sorry I cant resist..is that the Bart Simpson eagle?

Gary, I took a look at the strands of the eagle I posted and it has two not one. In fact the black cross stitch catches the two.
Does that mean that it was just different thread. Also Gary, what does a bigger bed mean when it comes to the machine, Thanks Sonny

John,I thought the same thing went I first saw that style eagle...Bart Simpson.

quote:

Originally posted by Sonny:
Gary, I took a look at the strands of the eagle I posted and it has two not one. In fact the black cross stitch catches the two.
Does that mean that it was just different thread. Also Gary, what does a bigger bed mean when it comes to the machine, Thanks Sonny

Sonny,
I did not make comment on your eagle but the one belonging to felix, your eagle looks like the uncut one john posted.

Bed this is what they call the area of the machine that the weaving is done on,it contains the needles, the bed width and number of needles determine the width of the item woven on it, although you can adjust the bed by adding or removing needles, these small machines that weave insignia are normally ribbon looms

there are also different gauges (sizes) of needles, the needles are not like sewing needles with a point but more like a hook with a gate to close the gap
cheers
Gary

quote:

Originally posted by JohnPic79:
Sorry I cant resist..is that the Bart Simpson eagle?

John,
yes i guess it does but i hope people do not start calling it the "bart" style eagle :-)
cheers
Gary