UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum Engraved Wilhelm Krieger SA and two others !!

Hi we have all been "there" in this hobby and no matter how much you may "will" an item to be "good" it doesn't work...at the end of the day if you like it and can live with opinions that is all that matters...as for TW I have both bought and sold to him for well over a decade...I purchased an NSDAP medal group from him that was pictured in his Offering as "mint" when it arrived there was zero gilt left to the NSDAP medal when I called him he stated that he had just decided to branch into medals and was not aware that it was supposed to have a finish...everyone makes mistakes...not everyone can admit them like Tom can...Tom is an accepted expert on daggers but not necessarily on engravings or the German language cheers, Ryan

I´m German and I can confirm that the inscription is wrong.

The inscription on the dagger in question says

"Zur Erinnerung an uns Freindschaft ..."

It must be in correct German:

"Zur Erinnerung an unsere Freundschaft ..."

In English it says "In remembrance of our friendship ..."

The word "our" in German is written wrong ("uns" is wrong, "unsere" is correct) and also it must be an "u" instead of an "i" in the word "Freundschaft" (friendship).

Since I´m German, I can clearly say this would be red flag for me at the dagger in question. I´m quite sure that nobody in Germany would have engraved these words as on the dagger. Especially not when the dagger should be a present to someone.

Hello,
Personalized daggers are my main intrest in this hobby, i hav and do own over 30 army daggers that have been personalized a few sa's a few 1st lufts and a nice ss, you really do get a feeling after you have handled a bunch of them, i try and at least handle every personalized dagger i come in contact with to get an idea of the originality. I have many with just initals and a few inscriptions, I am no german language expert but would definetly like to hold it in hand, it is a fact that some edged weapons were personalized outside of Germany. i would like to run my fingers across the engraving, have any of the previous owners ever cleaned the dagger?

Charles, some of the most respected guys in the hobby are speaking.
Serge has stepped up and offered to take it back. Something he doesn't have to do but certainly speaks to his integrity. You should give this serious thought.
Finally, Wotan though not often outspoken is likely one of the most knowledgable and experienced guys I know. When he speaks I give his words great weight.

Without a doubt a terrible engraving, with respect to style and linguistics. I've made dumb mistakes before myself also, so I don't blame Serge for making such a basic mistake. Things can be "fast and furious" at shows, and even the most basic thing can slip by in the heat of the moment.

It is thought by some that even Sepp Dietrich honor sword given to him by the men of LSSAH office corps has a mistake on it (the same name twice) explain that ?

quote:

Originally posted by zorro:
It is thought by some that even Sepp Dietrich honor sword given to him by the men of LSSAH office corps has a mistake on it (the same name twice) explain that ?

Hello Zorro,

please can you detailed report your statement ?

Best

Wittmanns SS book page 543. The name is Klinger not shown in that book.

quote:

Originally posted by zorro:
Wittmanns SS book page 543. The name is Klinger not shown in that book.

What do you think about this sword,ok it is not the right section here,but an interesting topic here!I ever asked me if this sword a period one ?!Such a big present from all LSAH leader officers and not a one photo document of this awarding procedere !From the most awarding ceremonies for KC1 (EK1) medals to common soldiers exists photos , but not a one for such a big officer gift procedere.

quote:

Originally posted by tobau:

quote:

Originally posted by zorro:
Wittmanns SS book page 543. The name is Klinger not shown in that book.

What do you think about this sword,ok it is not the right section here,but an interesting topic here!I ever asked me if this sword a period one ?!Such a big present from all LSAH leader officers and not a one photo document of this awarding procedere !From the most awarding ceremonies for KC1 (EK1) medals to common soldiers exists photos , but not a one for such a big officer gift procedere.

My point is that everybody makes mistakes and sometimes big ones.

quote:

Originally posted by ivbaust:
I´m German and I can confirm that the inscription is wrong.

The inscription on the dagger in question says

"Zur Erinnerung an uns Freindschaft ..."

It must be in correct German:

"Zur Erinnerung an unsere Freundschaft ..."

In English it says "In remembrance of our friendship ..."

The word "our" in German is written wrong ("uns" is wrong, "unsere" is correct) and also it must be an "u" instead of an "i" in the word "Freundschaft" (friendship).

Since I´m German, I can clearly say this would be red flag for me at the dagger in question. I´m quite sure that nobody in Germany would have engraved these words as on the dagger. Especially not when the dagger should be a present to someone.

you said it all,Ingo

Gerd

This one looks like a fake dagger,see how far the maker mark is of centre, nats

That's the number one problem with ALL engravings, whether it be on the blade, scabbard or fittings, it is nearly impossible to prove if it was done period or not.
There's no such things as "textbook" when it comes to engraving as they were mostly custom made, and there could be hundreds of variables.
These are also extremelly easy to duplicate.

quote:

Originally posted by nats:
This one looks like a fake dagger,see how far the maker mark is of centre, nats

Nats, can you post a close up of the makers mark? Thanks!

Hi ivbaust,If you check this maker mark with the one posted at the start of the thread,you can see its not in the middle,nats

Thanks for the close up, Nats. I fully agree. The logo is way off the location where usually the Krieger makers mark should be. The midline of the blade usually runs through the left line of the letter "R" of the last name KRIEGER.

Hard to imagine that the company released such a dagger. However, nothing is impossible.

Front view

quote:

Originally posted by tobau:

quote:

Originally posted by zorro:
Wittmanns SS book page 543. The name is Klinger not shown in that book.

What do you think about this sword,ok it is not the right section here,but an interesting topic here!I ever asked me if this sword a period one ?!Such a big present from all LSAH leader officers and not a one photo document of this awarding procedere !From the most awarding ceremonies for KC1 (EK1) medals to common soldiers exists photos , but not a one for such a big officer gift procedere.

Tobau , there are period photo's of that sword where you can see that there actually putting the names on the blade , it is really no postwar piece .....