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Joined: Jan 2007
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Hi All,

What do you think of this degen? My concerns are;

1. It feels a bit "light" (blade is 29")
2. There are scratches in various areas of the blade that indicate either a work-over or else it left the factory a bit crude. Were these blades every this crude from the factory?
3. Grip ferrule is cracked. Looks legit but may hurt value.
4. No paint to speak of on the grip. There are traces but somehow the majority went away.

Price is $7500; is that fair?

Please let me know what you think.

Regards,

Harvey

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It's always hard to tell 100% from photos, but the sword looks authentic. I can't see the crack in the ferrule, but it may be possible to repair it. Do not try to remove the grip to do so. Under the removed pommel cap is the cap cover that fits on the end of the tang. This should not be removed. It is likely the runes button is pinned through the tang. Let it be. Sword blades can be abused over the years for a number of reasons. This one may have had corrosion that someone tried to clean up. These blades were not plated, so, in the right hands, it could probably be significantly improved upon. As to price, that's always between the buyer and seller. I think $7500 is a little high, given the condition. But early SS officer swords are in demand and are scarce. You may not find another for any less. I would try to negotiate a reasonably lower price, but I'm not sure I would walk away from this one at the current price.

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Harvey,

Personally, I feel the sword is 100% legit and there is no telling why the blade has suffered the slight blemishes which in these photos don't appear too bad. I also don't feel that the paint loss on the handle is a great detriment considering how these stained types of handles typically wear quickly. I am also unable to see the crack or defect in the ferrule and would also suggest leaving it as it is. (I've never observed a 'cracked' ferrule)

I feel that the price is honest and very fair and at this level I would willingly buy it.

My opinions.

Best regards,

John

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More photos; I had to leave.

My biggest question are the 'file marks' or 'scratches' on the blade. Are they common on these swords?

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No, but, as noted above, they can probably be cleaned up, if desired.

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The crack could be problematic. I have never seen or heard of this before. Perhaps a casting flaw. If it can be repaired, it should be left on the sword without damaging the other parts. A repair to the ferrule may need the attention of someone who is familar with metal work and repair. It could be tough getting an "invisible" repair, in any case. If the ferrule will flex at all, the crack may be closed up and repaired. Luckily, it is on the reverse and in a recessed area that would normally be "burnished" (darkened). You should be able to minimize the looks of a repair, unless it is glaringly bad.

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Your sword appears to be a textbook early Peter Daniel Krebs example:
I'll address two if your points since others have already been hit upon.
Light weight: These swords are lightly constructed so by their nature that won't have any substantial weight to them. None of the swords built during the 3rd Reich were meant to be anything other than decorative so in general none of them have any real heft like earlier swords meant to be carried into combat.
Blade finish: It's been my observation that SS/Police sword blades have less than perfect finishes with lots of remaining tool marks and scratches. Why this is so is anybodys guess and is generally not the condition of other entities swords.
Jim

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very nice Degen!

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I agree with it being a nice degen.
On picture 17 was the bottom of D guard against the scabbards throat and the difference in sizes is summed up in the photo relating scabbard to blade fit?
How much of a difference is there and what is generally acceptable?

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I like this sword. Maybe I would try to discuss the price a little bit because of cleaning to the blade and damage to the ferrule, but I would definitely go for this degen. To find something decent at fair price is not an easy task.

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quote:
Originally posted by Dean Perdue:
I agree with it being a nice degen.
On picture 17 was the bottom of D guard against the scabbards throat and the difference in sizes is summed up in the photo relating scabbard to blade fit?
How much of a difference is there and what is generally acceptable?


Yes, that photo shows the difference between blade length and scabbard length.

Also, the more I inspect this blade the less I believe it has been re-worked or even cleaned. The 'ridge' or 'line of demarcation' between the fuller and the beginning of the cutting edge of the blade is very clear and precise; cleaning would have rounded that line.

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Not necessarily. I have seen many a blade where corrosion was limited to one area, or scattered about. The rest of us are working from photos, which makes it difficult. It could be cleaning up the blade was started and finished in some areas and left unfinished in others. The blade scratches are nothing to be concerned about in my view. As noted above, I would go for this sword, but would try to get a bit off on the price. If that can't be achieved, I would buy it. There are restorers around who can clean up the blade and can probably repair the ferrule, all for a fee, of course (negotiation points?). The grip can probably be darkened and finished, too, if you desire. However, some collectors would consider such to be "heresy."

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Nothing wrong with this sword IMO. Just 65 years plus of normal wear and tear. As to the blade, it can be cleaned properly, if desired. What I see in the photos could be the result of poor cleaning to a vet's kids wear and tear.
Ron Weinand


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You might find a better one?????????--but be prepared to pay at least a couple of thousand more


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Nice early example with not uncommon wear to the wooden grip. Considering that these early swords are much more desireable, I would say that the price is warranted.
I wouldn't clean this one up. It takes years and years for that greenish patina to build up.
Again, a nice early made sword. Go for it!

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While I think most of us always like to look at things first hand, the pictures are good enough I think to hazard some educated guesses. The crack in the ferrule appears to be just that, a stress fracture. But it’s uncertain what caused it, and is it still under stress? And what looks to me like a couple of places where a file might have been used to try and remove corrosion (more on the left, than the right side?). Being followed up by an abrasive, or abrasives.

That said, I’ve seen worse. And while repairs could be made, from my perspective I think that I would leave it alone for the moment, as all the options are explored. Having seen some “repair jobs” that have made items really ugly (and the owners wishing they had never gone down that path). With my own sense of possibly needed repairs at this point being limited to correcting/minimizing the file marks, which I suspect are postwar.

Having seen more than a few items really “tarted up” to try and make them look new, when all it did was make me want to walk away. But then you have to understand that I was originally a gun collector. And a collectible gun with a few minor repairs is preferable to one that has been needlessly completely reworked/reblued etc. FP


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