UBB.threads Forums General Interest Other Hobbies and Collections, like sports cars, movies, music,etc QUEEN # 85 Knife for Outdoorsmen

Queen City Cutlery Company has an interesting history, founded in 1918 by 6 highly skilled employes of the Schatt & Morgan Cutlery firm, who were moonlighting and then fired, they had no official name until 1922. Schatt & Morgan were weakened by the loss of these highly skilled workers during the 1920's and went broke in 1930. In 1932 Queen City Cutlery Co. purchased Schatt & Morgan.

I began to collect Queen # 85 knives about 1987 and now have 10 knives. From left to right knives are early (QUEEN CITY) to later (1993). My next post will show more details.

1922-1942 knives are marked "QUEEN CITY". 1946-1947 blades were marked with "QUEEN" using a sandblasted etch with no tang stamp. These early Queen City knives, "QUEEN" blades with the sandblasted etch and some early "CROWN & DOTS" knives have a thin guard about 2 mm or less on the "QUEEN CITY". Later knife guards are about 3 mm to 3.5 mm thick. Early (1946-1947) "TWIN SETS" (2 knives in 1 sheath) might have "QUEEN CITY" on 1 knife and a "QUEEN" sandblasted etch on the other knife. This company used an early Winterbottom bone in the 1930's until about 1942. Sandblasted etch knives (1946-1947) will be found with Roger's bone. "CROWN & DOTS" (1946-1950) will probably have Roger's bone. About 1951 Queen used what they called "FRONTIER BONE" (Winterbottom bone) the transition to "FRONTIER BONE" was complete by 1954. About 1968 DELRIN was used and in 1993 Winterbottom bone returned.

Here is the link for Queen Cutlery History https://queencutleryhistory.com/

Here are some more photos of my QUEEN # 85 knives showing some details and approximate dates.

Correction: I 1st posted from my notes, "About 1968 DELRIN was used and in 1993 Winterbottom bone returned".

The above knife with "TROUT KNIFE" etch and genuine Winterbottom bone is probably 1990 or before. Note there is no year on tang stamp.

In 1993 Queen used genuine bone with a Winterbottom jigging for its third Schatt & Morgan series knives.

The above knife with "TROUT KNIFE" etch: The Queen Cutlery mark (Q with U.S.A.) side stamp used, beginning in 1981. After 1990, the year is often also added to stamp.

Also note the above sheaths have stitching where the knife handle would be with knife in the sheath, and this is shown in the 1972 Queen catalog.

Nice collection. Thanks for showing them.

I have had a Queen Steel #75 since the mid to late 60's. Always assumed the handle was DELRIN.

--dj--Joe

The 1947 QUEEN catalog shows the # 85 knife with CROWN & DOTS mark in Roger's bone. It also shows the # 88 combination fishing set that contains the # 85 knife in Winterbottom bone.

I found an example of the # 88 combination fishing set (twin set) in Winterbottom bone with small knife (# 85) with CROWN & DOTS mark and the large knife with large "Q" mark. This set probably dates to about, 1947-1952.

Corrections: the above combination set may be the # 80 combination set because the large knife is described as an approximate 4" blade. The # 88 combination set notes a 4 1/4" blade on the larger knife.

From the Queen Cutlery history site: "In 1946, these three owners liquidated the assets of the Queen City Cutlery Company and reorganized as the Queen Cutlery Company, a Pennsylvania Corporation. They launched their first catalog around late 1948 to early 1949; began a transition from carbon steel to stainless; began using a new Winterbottom bone as their primary handle material and began a national sales effort."

Queen Cutlery History, "Queen Cutlery Company’s “sandblasted” Blade Markings" January 2015, by David A. Clark:
"In January 1946 Queen City Company was dissolved and the cutlery was re-incorporated as Queen Cutlery Company, a Pennsylvania corporation.
The next few years saw other changes like a move to stainless as the standard blade steel, the publishing of annual catalogs, a change from Rogers bone and the early Winterbottom bone handles to a new Winterbottom bone, the introduction of new patterns, and obtaining patents on several of the new patterns. Probably the most recognizable change was the change that came by dropping the Queen City stampings and obtaining the new trademark, the “Crown over Q” (Crown & dots). This mark evolved in several forms from tang stampings to blade etches. The various tang stamps have been documented and published in the last few years so we will not address those in the article but will focus on one particular type of blade “etchings” – sandblasting."
"All of these knives that used the sandblasted marks had these common characteristics: all were carbon steel, all had Rogers bone handles, and none had tang stamps and were marked with the blade marking only." "The time period that these blade marks were used has not been specifically determined."

I would add my two knives with the sandblasted etch have the thin (2 mm) guards. So, even if the etch was worn away, you can still identify these early (1946-1948?) knives by the thin 2 mm guard, Roger's bone and no tang stamp.

I have been using the Queen Cutlery catalog photos to help date my knives and this is probably not the best way because the photo from 1947 catalog for the # 85 knife with Crown & dots mark (and the thin 2 mm guard) and Rogers bone was probably reused for the 1949 and the 1950 catalog. The 1952 Queen catalog shows the # 85 knife with large "Q" mark, 3 mm thick guard and Winterbottom bone.

Not sure if this is of interest to you guys or not.
John Gibson has a mint in the box Queen #85 on his site for sale. Military Fighting Knives.com
Cool old knives.

Ed, Can you put in a link ?

Dave

Wish I could Dave, I can not figure out how to do anything on this computer i have, and use that word lightly. I can not get close to posting pictures either.
But if you type Military fighting knives in it comes up. A great sight for military knives.

The Queen # 85 knife offered at Military Fighting Knives, pictured below, is probably recent production from about 2008-2009 or later as shown in the 2008-2009 catalogs.

Listed as 85 ASB TROUT, with aged honey stag bone handles. Note the newer type of sheath.

Goins 1998 edition has the date of the purchase of Schatt & Morgan by Queen City as 1928, Ritchie & Stewart, knife guide 2003 edition has 1932 and the Queen Cutlery History web site has 1933, which is probably correct newer information by hard core QUEEN collectors.

Queen Cutlery History also has 5 skilled workers started Queen City Cutlery Co. and Ritchie & Stewart has 6 skilled workers started the Queen City Cutlery Co.

Queen Cutlery Co. closed in 2018.

Here is the link for Military Fighting Knives: https://www.militaryfightingknives.com/

The above photo shows # 85 ACSB on the box and this model is shown in the 2014 catalog however it is a what Queen calls a "Bear Head" (known to collectors as bare head) meaning there is no bolster on the end of the handle opposite to the blade.

The knife shown in the above photo is the Queen # 85 ASB TROUT with bolster (abt. 2006-abt. 2013).

Correction: I used the terminology "Bolster" (pocketknife term.) when I should have used "pommel" (sheath knife term.).