Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#359787 11/20/2023 02:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,946
Likes: 25
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,946
Likes: 25
Hello gents can anyone offer clarification was the Himmler signature engraved first then the date and name of recipient or were they all performed at the same time? Thanks and regards, Ryan Sorry I no longer have any of my HR reference books.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,419
Likes: 59
Online Content
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,419
Likes: 59
The entire inscription was made at once and in its entirety, there were no preliminary prepared inscriptions, all the engraving was cut out at once. It is not possible to make a partial inscription until the ring is prepared to a certain size. And when the ring is prepared to the desired size, then you can see where the engraving will begin and end. I don’t want to write about the sequence, look for the answer on Google, it’s simple.

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,946
Likes: 25
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,946
Likes: 25
Thanks for your reply. If we "looked for the answers: upon Goggle than this forum and others woukd truly be DEAD. I was clarifying a question that someone had presented to me.... I have learned much about this HR hobby many are very reluctant to offer an opinin upon a ring.... still others will pronounce a ring as fake simply by some pics without stating why. Some will say that the ring will certainly have charactoristics by checking only to find that none are in fact correct I was recently told from a ring authority that a certain ring hand a machine done engraving, a fake seam and appeared to be plated silver. I took the ring to a "master jeweller" of over 50 years who in 12 seconds stated the following a real seam, solid silver most probably .925 and a hand engraving of the highest quality 50% like the ring from photos and 50% don't but only two have held in hand and one was entirely wrong the ring has been checked side by side aganst a same year ring and the detais match oerfectly so much so that many have asked if they are pictures of the same ring even the wear patterns are almost identical the ring was first obtained in the 1960s and was in the possession of a non collector from 1992 until 2023 it has the stipling a separate skull a proper seam the proper skull the correct "techniques" the correct date and yet it is "fake" lol I guess it is indeed that much storied SUPER FAKE that was prophesied the ring will be at the SOS for a hands on inspection so it can be pronounced good or bad but with reasons and explanation one recognized respected authority said " If the seam is real then that ring is real" from the pics.......... The seam is real cheers and best, R

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,050
Likes: 256
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,050
Likes: 256
Ryan,,,in the mid 90s I bought a HR in East Europe. I knew it was fake but it was a great fake for its time.. Made in the flat rounded, soldered with a separate skull.. I don't know when the engraving was done but it was hand engraved except the HH signature.. after some study of it I sold it to a member here..

So Evgeniy is correct.. You must know the name first.. The engraved name and HH sig must all fit on the mans finger size. Antonios findings prove the ring wasn't made from a silver billet pressed in to a ring. What we're not 100% is however it was made is,,was it straight or semi circle...
It really doesn't matter. Years ago Joe Wotka mathematically figured/proved it would not matter if the ring was engraved flat or, engraved in a circle. The distortion was minimum..

So really your original question : "was the Himmler signature engraved first then the date and name of recipient or were they all performed at the same time? " wouldn't matter on a good quality fake.. I've joked with E many times,, aged right,,,that in the future when no one really cares about this stuff many of his rings will be deemed as originals....

your next post about the fake being around a long time, seams, engravings.. Its nothing... This isn't neuro brain surgery.. I've had gears made for antique motorcycles without having a gear to make the reproduction from!! Yes there are certain mysteries we'll never know exactly how Gahr did it,,,but big deal,,in the end if they were done a few different ways as long as they came out the same thats all that matters... My opnion,,yes HRs are VERY cool,,,,but give me a private purchase ring anyday....................

Last edited by Gaspare; 11/21/2023 03:07 PM.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,946
Likes: 25
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,946
Likes: 25
Hi Gaspare I hear you and concur I am not willing anything to be real I just want honest answers and explanations thats all my original questiin about the engraving had no relation to a particular ring it was just a question LOL HR are a minefied and a MINDfield I have only owned three authenticated COA people even cast disparaging comments upon those who issued COA Ya can't win respect always, R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,946
Likes: 25
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,946
Likes: 25
To clarify to everyone the comment "if that seam is real then that ring is real" was NOT a blanket statement about seams it was applied to this ring from pictures and the seam on this ring The person coukdn't fiind fault with the ring some commented that the seam appeared engraved it is NOT saga continues LOL

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,050
Likes: 256
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,050
Likes: 256
Ryan,, We know Evgeniy makes his rings by the cast method. There are different kinds of casting but it all goes by the model used.. His Hr copies are beautiful! ,, anyway

- And ,we have a member Hapur. He makes his rings from a pressed billet. In the flat,,rolls them and then solders on a skull he makes . Heres a interesting link and shows exactly how he does it! Go to 'Hows it Made'.

www.totenkopfrings.com


As much as we all like Don B. his certificates aren't worth the paper they are printed on anymore. The HR is not pressed from a billet. I've seen a certificate from a German dealer years ago . He had a very big following for his weekly auctions. Pretty sure all had certs. I saw one for a HR. . Mentioned something like,,2 piece ring, seam behind the skull, hand engraved,, HR is authentic..

By determining authenticity by that dealers method there would be 1000s of 'good' HRs out there. For me there is no market for the HR anymore.. I don't trust dug rings,,rings from European collections, etc.. So what to do? IF you really want one,,you find a nice 1st pattern in good shape, from a real old collection and hope for the best.

Last edited by Gaspare; 11/21/2023 05:03 PM.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,946
Likes: 25
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,946
Likes: 25
Again I am in full agreement Gaspare one person who examined the ring stated that it was plated the expert jeweller sneered when I told him this and said solid silver tarnished with age He even showed me verdigree within the letters of the engraving under magnification and in the recesses of the engraving in his opinion the ring appeared quite old he couldn't state for certain that it was 78 years old but he did state it appeared decades old regards, Ryan


Moderated by  Stephen 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,259,729 SS Bayonets
1,759,231 Teno Insignia Set
1,127,094 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Bulgarian Brannik youth knife - real?
by Chiska - 02/26/2024 08:27 PM
artificial ivory grip
by sellick8302@rogers.com - 02/25/2024 03:36 PM
HR on Rats auction
by Gaspare - 02/24/2024 01:04 PM
SOS rings +
by Gaspare - 02/23/2024 12:36 AM
FAIRBAIRN SYKES BRITISH DAGGER KNIFE ?
by Dutchman - 02/22/2024 04:52 PM
Latest New Posts
Luftwaffe General Hangers
by Gerrit1963 - 02/27/2024 10:12 AM
HR on Rats auction
by Evgeniy - 02/27/2024 09:28 AM
Verlangerungsmesser
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 02/27/2024 03:25 AM
artificial ivory grip
by sellick8302@rogers.com - 02/27/2024 01:50 AM
Bulgarian Brannik youth knife - real?
by Gaspare - 02/26/2024 11:45 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,624
Posts328,340
Members7,488
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
5 members (Documentalist, Vern, Honestmike, Evgeniy, Gerrit1963), 366 guests, and 121 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5