UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Hunting, Forestry, and Shooting Forum Massive Antique German Forestry / Hunting tool

My advanced knife collector friend from Germany sent me pictures of a probable massive antique German forestry / hunting tool his collector friend had just acquired.

My friend from German emailed me: "PELZ", with his comments: "This is just out of this world" and "Unbelievable!!!!!"

The massive antique tool is maker marked "PELZ, Grafenberg". My guess is it was probably made about 1870 to 1890's, although it could be made before 1870.

The stag handle tool has an ax / hammer head, with saw, shears, and pruner blade, folded into the handle. The tool has a massive bolster with a lanyard ring.

I found another probably 20th century Big Game axe / hammer with blades in the stag handle, and it does not compare with the massive PELZ.

C. Wetzel-20609.

Probably made under contract for the Swiss Army

Sorry, I could not resist Interesting piece. I wonder who carried it ?

That is outstanding.
Ed

Hey Dave, the owner lives in Switzerland.

Here are two more photos showing the other side and the weight of this massive tool.

Awesome find! Thanks for showing it.

OMG,, I'm falling for a inanimate object!!!

That thing is awesome.. Every camper, every Biker etc. should have one of these.... - Is that in 'useable condition? meaning the blades nice and tight, straight, no broken blades etc.?


- C. W.,,, What is the current value of one of these in that condition?

Gaspare, I am still researching this item. I am still unsure who it was made for or when.

The item appears to be in very good condition, some staining, some pitting, maybe some loss to the stag surface with no cleaning.

I don't think something this rare would ever be used by a collector. As far as "current value", I don't know because I never seen anything like this before.

The other item in the photo is an 18th century flint lock tinder lighter.

Could this be an item used by an Army, I doubt it, but I will keep an open mind. I am waiting and hoping to hear more from Germany.

This is the other similar tool I found with auction description and is probably a low-quality example from the late 20th century:

Lot 750: Big game hunter's belt axe / hammer with combination knife and tools incorporated in the grip, approx 24cm L
Est: AUD 500 - AUD 800
Passed
Vickers & Hoad
November 12, 2016
Sydney, Australia

Late last night I sent an email to Volker Lobner, Frankfurt, Germany.

Volker Lobner is associated with the Frankfurt Museum and is in the process of finishing his 3rd book that will feature my Carl H. Glauth boar head Hirschfanger.

I asked him if he knew anything about the PELZ tool and sent photos too. Here is his reply:


Dear Calvin,

never seen such a tool before. May be for a carpenter.

Ask post@solingen.de Deutsches Klingenmuseum Solingen. They surely can help.



With best regards

Volker

I received an email reply from Solingen, Germany about the PELZ tool:

Klingenmuseum <klingenmuseum@solingen.de>
To:
'Calvin Wetzel'

Wed, Jul 12 at 3:00 AM

Dear Calvin,

i´m sorry but we haven´t seen such a tool before also the company is unknown.

I think it is made in the late 19 or early 20th century.

Maybe made for a roofer or gardening, i don´t think for hunting



Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Lutz Hoffmeister

http://www.seminare.intern.solingen.de/signatur/signaturen/solingen.jpg

Klingenstadt Solingen · Deutsches Klingenmuseum · Klosterhof 4 · 42653 Solingen · Germany

Fon: +49 212 2583623
www.solingen.de

www.solingen.de

www.klingenmuseum.de

another great topic/thread.. Seldom seen, rare pieces, investigated.. Nice work and great to see!

Volker Lobner of Frankfurt, Deutschland was not happy with the reply from Solingen about the PELZ tool and thought the reply may have come from an assistant or trainee:

"Dear Calvin,


Suppose that the man at Solingen had no interest in searching.... perhaps he is only an assistant or trainee.

I am not amused about this because

now we see that even Solingen produced this type of knives.....


Thank you.

Yours Volker"

Thank you for sharing inforrmation on this unusual, massive / oversize tooling of 'probable' German origin.

Why are Mr. Kaeshammer (I am referring his name to your 'Verlangerungsmesser thread) or you assuming the origin of this tool in Germany?
I agree that the term 'Grafenberg' probably is of German language (literally translated 'earl's hill' / 'count's hill').
Anyway a 'Grafenberg' location might be or have been somewehre else in German speaking Europe: Austria-Hungaria including Bohemia (with an outstanding cutlery industry), post WW I Austria, or even Switzerland.

The "PELZ Grafenberg" markings definitively makes me research my records of cutlery industry:
if I remember right a collector friend from the US corresponded with me in regards to a large 'GRAFENBERG' marked knife sometime in the mid/end 1980s, he had linked the mark in question with Graefrath Broths (Gebr. Graefrath) cutler in Solingen.

chevalier23

Hallo Chevalier,

it was my idea for the use of the words "probable" and "German". Herr Kashammer only noted the markings and his reaction to viewing this PELZ tool.

When doing research on Ancestry.com I have learned to use the words "probably" and "maybe" when we are not quite sure about the facts.

The owner lives in Switzerland but does buy items from other countries.

Here are some locations for the name Grafenberg:

Grafenberg - Wikipedia

Grafenberg may mean:
• Düsseldorf-Grafenberg, a borough of Düsseldorf
• Grafenberg (Reutlingen), a town in Baden-Württemberg, Germany
• Grafenberg (Strengberg), a village in Austria

Chevalier I am thankful for your help with this research and would like to see similar tools.

Herr Kashammer emailed me that there is a woman who collects antique European gardener tools and pruner knives who wanted to buy the PELZ tool.

I now believe the PELZ tool is probably for Gardening.

Probably for use in the Vineyards.

Wetzel,

Yes that's correct but also are made for camping as well. Out door tool for sure.

Mikee,

I believe the modern examples are sold for camping / survival.

I have another update on the PELZ tool. My friend in Germany informed me there are initials on the hammer head.

He now thinks the initials on the PELZ took may be for a Lumber worker or Lumber company.

The initials are reversed so if struck on wood would leave a mark that looks to me like the initials T S

"Research is subject to change", a quote by Mildred Clark.

Hey Wetzel

Yes I agree modern ones made for camping and the out doors.

Exactly and you can always tell by the business end of a hammer..that looks like a heavy log marking hammer. Nice!

In Germany the foresters used a Baumreisser for marking trees with an X to be cut. Now a days it's paint and tags for the most part ..Best!

Just found this U. S. Forestry image of 1939 with this caption:

Marking a Tree - 1939
This ranger removed some bark with the cutting edge of his hatchet and then stamped "US" with the other side to mark the tree.

Photo taken in 1939 by W. H. Shaffer. Credit: USDA Forest Service, Coconino National Forest

Here is a 19th century Timber Merchant's or Forester's marking ax with saw. Very similar to the PELZ tool.

Hello C. Wetzel,
I hope that I did not offend you with my question '... assuming the origin of this tool in Germany?'.
Thank you for clearing that no facts for a possible location of the cutler / tool maker in question are available so far.

By chance I was born in Duesseldorf and know the borough of Grafenberg. While researching for cutlery, knives and toolings from Grafenberg or Graefenberg I was directed to that Duesseldorf location frequently.
I never succeeded with matching information ... and I doubt that a cutler of such impressive toolings might have setteled in that location just 20 miles away from Solingen.

I will continue digging in my records concerning other possible locations.



Correct, Mikee.
I hope you will enjoy the following illustration of 'Baumreisser' bladed toolings:

Chevalier, I am not offended by your comments at all, and I thank you for your comments and questions.

I have one more fact about the PELZ tool. My friend thinks that the owner from Switzerland, bought this tool from an auction house in East Germany.

Thank you for this additional information. It may direct the toolmaker's / cutler's location possibly to Bohemia.

I will go ahead in researching soon.
chevalier2023

Chevalier,

Oh heck ya! Awesome! Thank you.

Wetzel,

Can you get a clear closeup picture of the maker mark on the marking hammer? Thank you

Mikee, I can ask.

The picture with the saw folded out shows the maker's mark on the saw blade, and on the blade of the pruning knife blade, if you click on the picture, use zoom and drag image.

"PELZ" over "Grafenberg".

It looks like the pruning shears are only marked "PELZ".

I am pleased to up-date my information in regards to the outstanding 'PELZ - GRAFENBERG' tooling.
Anyway these news are just one additional step fur follow-up researches.

C. Wetzel already suggested three possible „GRAFENBERG“ locations which might fit for researches in this matter:


Way back home from a trip to the German State of Bavaria I had the opportunity to visit a friend in the northern part of Bavaria named „Frankenland“.
Road signes showed up a village of „GRÄFENBERG“ close to my final destination.
It is a fact that the German ‚Umlaut A“ letter with two dots on top of the letter A are not necessarily used on markings for export pupse.
During my stay we made a trip to this provincial town of Gräfenberg with c.4000 inhabitants.
Part of the historic town wall has survived and an the east side town gate https://schmuckziegel.info/auszeichnungen/detail/?object=269
is showing up this nice painting with a blacksmith, his anvil with a chaine with a sword … a possible proof for a previos knife maker ?



Unfortunately further researches failed, no proof for a ‚PELZ‘ name in regards to a blacksmith, a forge or a toolmaker couod be found.

I will keep on digging!

Chevalier2022

I noticed two typing errors in my previous post.Please apologize!
I corrected them in this following text:

I am astonished of such a statement by Volker Lobner who „… is associated with the Frankfurt Museum“.

The German Blade Museum assistant’s reply „… i´m sorry but we haven´t seen such a tool before also the company is unknown. … I think it is made in the late 19 or early 20th century. … Maybe made for a roofer or gardening, i don´t think for hunting“ is polite and complete.

Matching to the name „Klingenmuseum“ (Blade Museum) the focus of this outstanding ‚institution‘ is on „blades“ … knives, cutlery, edged weapons …“, but not on toolings.
Volker is stating : „never seen such a tool before. May be for a carpenter.“
Possibly Volker directed you to the wrong (?) museum.
I just asked the „Deutsches Werkzeugmuseum“ (German Toolings‘ Museum“ in Solingen’s neighbouring town Remscheid and will keep you posted of that museum’s reply.

Chevalier2022

Chevalier

I agree, I thought the Klingenmuseum reply was a good and helpful one. And I must add they are all awesome professional people and always helpful.

Ha I also asked the tool museum a while back, no reply yet, they are very busy. Hope you get one quicker. I also asked a tooling manufacture company PELZ. Might not be the same company. I lost the info will have to find it again.I have to many things going on lol....Best!

Volker Lobner was speculating about the person at the museum, Lutz Hoffmeister, his job title and his interest in researching this tool at the Deutsches Klingenmuseum.

I was hoping to get an answer from Museum director Dr. Sixt Wetzler, Klingenstadt Solingen, seen here at the far right.

The 'German Tooling Museum's response has arrived by it's Director Dr. Wallbrecht:

" ... besten Dank für Ihre Anfrage. Leider kann ich Ihnen da überhaupt nicht weiterhelfen. So ein Werkzeug habe ich noch nie gesehen und eine entsprechende Firma ist mir nicht bekannt. ..."

Let me try to translate in English :
'... thank you for requesting. Unfortunately I cannot be of help at all. I have never seen such a tooling and a matching (PELZ / GRAFENBERG) maker is unknown to me. ..."

A collegue of Dr. Wallbrecht is off for vacation. He is informed on my request and will advise if he has any idea on that tooling or maker.

I will continue digging vintage German directories in this matter.
chevaler 2022

PELZ - GRAFENBERG
BRENNER - GREFENBRG
BRENNER - GRAEFENBERG

No follow-up news in regards to the unusual oversize PELZ tooling.
Anyway I like to share two different possible 'location' markings of another unique and oversize multi-bladed hunting knife.
The two different markings on this BRENNER knife are confusing me, anyway I am convinced that this knife possibly has the same local origin as the PELZ tooling has:





chevalier 2022

By chance I could acquire this gazetteer, being published by the Imperial German Central Office of Postal Services (Reichspostzentralamt).
This 1944 update is listing all Postal Offices, Postal Services, railway stations, wharves and airports of 1944 'Großdeutschland' (Grand Germany) INCLUDING (!) some surrounding, during the wartime 'captured' or 'merged' countries.
The blackened part is deleting the Swastika of the Postal Services' logo.



On the map you will recognize post WW II separated countries such for example Austria, Czech Republic, and Poland.



A listing of place names / toponymy is showing up several Grafenberg / Gräfenberg names, so far unknown to me as place name in Germany and not yet suggested by Wetzel's post #358510..
Possibly these names will be helpful for my follow up researches in several German vintage directories.

chevalier2022

It took an unexpected long time to research a matching pre 1900 location for ‚GRAFENBERG‘ / ‚GRAEFENBERG‘ / ‚GREFENBRG‘ terms, showing up as possible location of oversize tool & knife makers … and finally two more options of writing in German language for the identical location are showing up: Bad Grafenberg and Bad Grafenberk.
In my last post I already had the hope, that the illustrated gazetteer, being published by the Imperial German Central Office of Postal Services (Reichspostzentralamt) in 1944 possibly might be helpful for further researches.
Several Grafenberg and Graefenberg and similar named locations are being listed, one of the entries is showing up as ’Gräfenberg (Ostsudetenl), Freiwaldau‘.
1 - ‚Ostsudentenl‘ was the German abbreviation for ‚Eastern Regions of the Sudeten Mountains (Ostsudetenland), a part of a province named ‚Lower Silesia‘ of Prussia during the 18th century, ‚Duchy of Silesia‘ during Austria-Hungaria’s Monarchy, post WW I incorporated into Poland, during WW II occupied by German Armed Forces, post WW II again part of Czechoslovakia and part of the Czech Republik today.
2 - Due to these political changes the ‚German‘ name of Freiwaldau was being altered in the Czech language as Frývaldov until 1947, now JESENIK in MORAVIA. Part of this location is LÁZNÉ GRÄFENBERK.
3 – Quite confusing for researches is the fact, that another German city had the identical Freiwaldau name: located in the Dutchy of Sagan and part of Prussia in Lower Silesia, too, , then Germany (Deutsches Reich) and post 1945 part of Poland and named Godynice in Polish language since then.
There is a distance of only 150 miles between these two cities:



Back to Freiwaldau / Frývaldov / Jesenik: MORAVIA (German Mähren) is the most northern part of the Czech Republik, and the city of FREIWALDAU / JESENIK is located just a few miles away from the border to Poland. All my internet information on this location showed up its importance as a spa (due to several medicinal springs) such as this postcard (dated 17/9/1894 !) , listing the location as ‚Bad Gräfenberg‘ i.e. ‚Graefenberg Spa‘ but failed in regards to a knifemaker.

Other sources are indicating this region’s importance as ski ressort.
The final hit was a mid 1870s German Compendium of Germany’s Industrial Services which I discovered in a German State Archieves. It is listing the following entry under the city’s name of FREIWALDAU at that time with 1.350 inhabitants and a hamlet of Gräfenberg, famous as spa :


chevalier2022

Wow, that is a lot of research you did. It will only get us closer to finding this maker imo.

I forgot to translate the 1870's business entry in that German Compendium of Germany’s Industrial Services:

"Messerschmiede" is in English 'knife forge' or 'cutler'.

And I am still curious to learn of that two cutler's intention for crafting such oversize toolings / knives!

chevalier2022

chevalier2022, if anybody needs an archetype for fundamental research - YOU are the man!

Regards,

My advanced knife collector friend "Mr. K." from Germany sent me pictures of a pocketknife made by Brenner, owned by Horst Brunner.

He also sent to me, two emails after I sent "Mr. K." the new research by Chevalier2022.

1st email: "Hi Calvin.
Gräfenberg is really, really interesting.
These two makers (BRENNER / PELZ) are highly desirable.
I made a profile of them two or three years ago.
Maybe you could find out where the site comes from. I think it is out of a „Gewerbeverzeichnis" of that area.
As far as I can see, there were two knife makers in Gräfenberg. Wonderful.
Thank you for sharing, THOMAS."

2nd email: "This is the wonderful Brenner.
And he had the wooden bathtub as makers mark.
Gräfenberg was a Spa. And maybe still is. T
This knife was in the collection of Horst Brunner."

I found this from ResearchGate:

Gräfenberg Spa, a small vestige of old Austria in the north-eastern corner of the Czech Republic. January 2006.
In the valley between the Reichensteiner and Altvater Gebirge lies Jesenik (Freiwaldau). About 2Km above its centre, on the sunny side is the spa Gräfenberg, once an independent place but now administratively part of Freiwaldau but physically still quite separate, a little "old Austria" Although hardly known today, around 1900 it was nearly as famous a spa as Karlsbad. Its fame was entirely due to a local man, Vincenz Priessnitz (1799-1851), son of a peasant, who developed cures by using cold spring water to heal various ailments, and founded the first hydrotherapy spa, well ahead of the now better known Pfarrer (Reverend) Kneipp. At first treatment took place in his home, but gradually more buildings were added. The most important one, now called "Sanatorium Priessnitz", was built in 1910 in Art Nouveau style; despite its later addition it still conveys the impression of old Austria. It is the most important part of a "spa landscape" which gradually developed. Apart from the buildings serving as both accommodation for patients and treatment centres, there is a bandstand and many walkways with benches for resting. But unique among spas are the numerous "monuments ", financed by grateful patients, at the approximately 60 springs. Amongst them is one financed by English patients in 1848. The largest is a monument of a lion by the famous Munich sculptor Schwanthaler, now used as the logo of the spa. After its heyday prior to WW I, Bad Gräfenberg, experienced a decline and it was only after the "velvet revolution" in Czechoslovakia in 1989, when it became a limited company, that a new rise began. Nowadays it is used by 12-15,000 patients p.a., mostly Czech citizens, but also Poles (the border is only a few Km away), Slovaks, Germans (mainly from Saxony) and others. During the summer months it operates to near capacity but there is a relatively low attendance in winter, despite the fact that there are good winter sports facilities. The positive development over recent years is also due to vigorous advertising and to the low charges compared to the major spas in the Czech Republic and elsewhere.

Authors: K. A. Sinnhuber