#39826
04/10/2009 07:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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OP
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
Oh, The Dagger you posted the photo of is BEAUTIFUL!! Thanks for the post! RG88
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#39827
04/10/2009 08:15 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 915
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 915 |
OK, here's a few more of repro Honour damascus blades...
Red
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#39828
04/10/2009 08:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 915
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 915 |
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#39829
04/10/2009 08:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 915
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 915 |
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#39830
04/10/2009 08:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 915
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 915 |
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#39831
04/10/2009 08:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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OP
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
Red Baron! Very Nice, Now do you know if those are real Damascus or Simulated? Do you have any photos of the Reverse of the blades or daggers? Crossguards? Thanks again for the posts! I, for one, am learning a lot here now!
Regards, RG88
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#39832
04/10/2009 09:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,336 Likes: 5
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,336 Likes: 5 |
picture (echtdamast) is damascus Eickhorn picture is damascus, PDL is etched fake damascus, and the last picture is damascus... All post war production... Red Baron are these blades from the daggers you pictured before ?? Regards: James Paul Muller marked most of his (postwar) Real damascus echt damast (real Damascus) This stuff is all in books and has been known to collectors . Just trying to help out and get crapped on.. But don't believe me Ask FLYINGDUTCHMAN RON W. WOTON MIKEE etc... They have told you the same thing...  The dagger is not period 1945 or before so what do you what to prove.  The old saying ( you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear) works here...
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#39833
04/10/2009 09:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
RG88, We are very lucky to have someone of Damast's ability and expertise to comment on damascus pieces on the forum. I suggest we entertain his continued responses and either read and forget or read and adsorb the information rather than asking him to "let it go" as he is one of the best on damascus in the hobby.
JMO,
Ron Weinand
MAX CHARTER MEMBER
LIFE MEMBER OVMS
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#39834
04/10/2009 09:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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OP
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
Damast, I am really upset that you feel someone "Crapped" on you! I most certainly was not trying to do that. I have nothing to prove at all, I have said at least three times in previous posts that I have no idea whether the dag was pre or post War. I just wanted information and some discussion. I also just reported what I was seeing. The Blade Tang appeared to me to be De-laminating and I had to repair it. I asked you what, in your opinion would make a steel blade delaminate like that if it WASN"T Damascus and you chose to ignore that part of my questions. Have you not been reading my posts? Go back and look! I have been nothing but respectful to you throughout! I know you collect Damascus and that is why I asked you those questions. Also, I think I made it clear to everyone that I had no vested interest in the piece being either Wartime or Post war other than it would be nice if it was period! So, how on Earth did you get off on thinking I felt I had something to prove? Please help me out here! I am not looking to be disagreeable with anybody! RG88
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#39835
04/10/2009 10:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 407 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 407 Likes: 1 |
quote: Originally posted by DAMAST:
Thank you for the photo. The tang is a production made plain steel tang I do not need to see the tang to know it is not damascus. I can tell from the pattern on the blade and the pattern on the blade spine . I
RG88, I do believe that DAMAST has allready answered to your post with the pic of the tang, I quoted his answer. Please understand that for an experienced eye it is possible to see whether a blade was made of real laminated steel or mono steel. An etched damascus pattern on a blade looks like printed on. You will not see the typical lines of the layers running out at the rims of the blade for example. I am sure DAMAST can explain this much better than I can, on one hand because of my lack of English at the other hand because he knows his stuff. In this case from where I sit this is not a matter of discussion. We are all here to give you our honest opinions on an item. Unfortunately we can't do anymore. Sorry. Best; Flyingdutchman
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#39836
04/10/2009 10:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274 |
quote: The Blade Tang appeared to me to be De-laminating and I had to repair it. I asked you what, in your opinion would make a steel blade delaminate like that if it WASN"T Damascus and you chose to ignore that part of my questions.
Most of the discussion is not in my comfort zone. And I'm only offering a single comment. I did not see the "before". But from the single image I did see it looked to me like it could have been a simple stress fracture. Having seen conventional blades with breakage (full and/or partial) in that area that had nothing to do with Damascus. FP
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#39837
04/12/2009 10:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1 |
IMO the dagger and case are obvious post war fakes. Lots of discussion as to whether the blade is real damascus. IMO what is really important here is whether it is period or not not whether it is damascus or not because, as stated there are lots of damascus post war blades--so-whatever--fake anyway you look at it.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#39838
04/12/2009 11:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 249
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 249 |
quote: whatever--fake anyway you look at it.
!
as Tom Johnson use to say:
"...the story is really theirs to tell" now we will do...
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#39839
04/13/2009 02:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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OP
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
Yep! Fake anyway! Whatever! Don't know why I even bothered to post it here! !END! as Tor Johnson use to say: "...Yaaaaarghhhh, Ugggggghhhhh"  
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#39840
04/13/2009 03:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 249
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 249 |
Railgun88,
! was my post.
As it`s enough to tell you that Houston is right.
"as tom Johnson use to say.." is under every post of mine.
But I agree with You, I also don`t know why you ask about your dagger here. But shure not to hear the truth about your dagger.
Medes.
as Tom Johnson use to say:
"...the story is really theirs to tell" now we will do...
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#39841
04/15/2009 12:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,049
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,049 |
Not saying your dagger wasnt sold at Wallis and Wallis but have just looked thru all their catalogues from 1970 to 1980 and lot 658 was on lots of interesting items but never a Kriegsmarine dagger of any description.I didnt see a honor dagger in any of those sales either
I do remember them selling a loose honor dagger pommel in one of their special sales.Sure Roy Butler would remember if he did sell it why not ask him ?
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#39842
04/15/2009 06:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 113
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 113 |
Hello,....I am pleased to inform you that the one and only genuine Navy honour dagger to have ever be sold by Wallis & Wallis was in the 60s...Sale no 133 lot no798 and it sold for a mind numbing �275! A fair few quid in those days!...Cheers
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#39843
04/15/2009 07:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 407 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 407 Likes: 1 |
quote: Originally posted by Flyingdutchman:
Dear Railgun88,
please, don't get me wrong. It is not my intention to say anything bad about your dagger. If it is the Real McCoy for you, thats fine with me.
Unfortunately there are a few facts which are not matching to the piece you have posted.
Jan Piet Puype (quoting Dr.Klietmann) stated in his article in 1974 about these extremely rare daggers that just six were produced and awarded during the Raeder period. Puype further quoted Mr.Frederick J.Stephens who said that in July 1966 a 7th dagger was sold by Wallis&Wallis in London. It was the Auction No.133 and lot No.798. This was the seventh honour dagger given from D�nitz to Fregattenkapit�n Brandi. You can find this dagger in the 3rd issue from Oct./Nov. 1970 in Militaria Collector. Puype further stated in 1974 that the main difference between the D�nitz dagger and the six Raeder daggers are just in the inscription. Neither the Raeder daggers nor the D�nitz dagger given to Brandi are close to the dagger you have posted. I am very sorry that I am not able to provide you with further informations. But the honour dagger in Puypes famous article from 1974 does not look like the dagger you have posted. Sorry again.
Best regards;
Flyingdutchman
Hi, that matches to my statement. Additionally I would like to mention that Vic and I are working on these rare daggers right now because we want to publish an add to our book. Until now we have just six original honour daggers of the Kriegsmarine which were awarded. The name list from Dr.Klietmann was confirmed by Fregattenkapit�n a.D. R. Suhren at January 1st, 1956. Best; Flyingdutchman
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