UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Army Officer Daggers

Is Hack- Werke Steyr the fish logo considered a rare maker? I just saw one for the first time. I see on the reference guide they exist but just got me thinking as to how many?

Yes, it is pretty rare. Very hard to find.

Dave

Thank you, before I found it on the Forum I looked thru all of Tom Johnsons books as he always listed uncommon maker marks and i couldn't find it anywhere but that's been longer than i realized since volume 8 Regards, Craig

Craig,

I've only seen it on a Luftwaffe dagger.

Dave

I have two Hack Werk maker marks, both on 2nd Lufts,

Fish in oval
Fish no oval.

I have never seen it on a Heer, but, then, I am not looking for one either.

John

John, two?! The fish is always rare on just about anything. I’ve got it on a fire bayonet, only one I e ever seen.

Billy, I was surprised as well, but there it is, two very different marks.

John

I have seen one Heer dagger with the fish in 40 years

The army dagger i looked at had the fish in the oval, just as the one Vern shows in the army makers guide. The blade is plated and the dagger uncleaned and in excellent cond. Guess i need to check the fittings as against the different type's shown in TW's army book.

Hello, HACK-WERKE STEYR, owned by Josef and Gustav Hack was a smaller Austrian knife maker. During III R they did produce mainly SA/NSKK daggers, HJ knives and walking out dress bayonets. Only few army/luft daggers.
A further makermark with the lieing fish and "Rostfrei" beneath is known.
It is the same like problem as with ZEITLER edged weapons: They DID produce a lot during the III R, mainly for the now "Ostmark" demand, but after 45 there had been a large amount of surplus parts and these were used (ZEITLER´s by Atwood; HACK´s by the firm itself) to assemble edged weapons long after the war. Imho it is always necessary to look if a certain dagger has a homogenous look, if all parts are well executed(!) and fitting nicely together(!!). If this is not the case it might be a past 45 compilation.
After 45 they did produce mainly hunting knives until they got liquidated in 1981.
Regards, daggers.

Very interesting info! Do you possibly know what type of fittings were predominantly used by Hack and Zeitler on their army daggers? was it mainly Generic fittings or a manufacturer specific?
I'm asking this because strangely enough, both a Zeitler as well as a Hack Werke army were offered here for sale recently, and BOTH had eickhorn fittings?
Thanks in advance.
Dion

That's a rare bird! Never seen one till now. It's a ten on Denny Roach rarity list. Best!

Hello Dion! The one HACK army I have in my files has been shown by david walsh in GD.C in january 2009 an has generic fittings. Personally I have never seen any convincable non EICKHORN edged weapon with EICKHORN fittings and I would omit them. Sorry, have no ZEITLER in my files but as far as I remember the very few I have seen these had generic fittings. To my best knowledge EICKHORN did not sell their parts to other firms. But on the other hand we cannot absoutely conclude it.
Regards,

Hi Wotan,

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, I can very well believe your statement regarding Eickhorn. I also cannot believe that Eickhorn would allow that. I've seen Eickhorn utilize Generic A fittings, but not the other way around. In fact, I personally have come across 4 Eickhorns with Generic A crossguards, where I know that they were not fiddled with. The Hack that was on offer here, as well as the Zeitler were through and through Eickhorn. Right down to the scabbard, so I personally think that someone swapped out the blades and tried to sell them off as rare makers.
When you say the Hack that you have on record has Generic fittings, do you mean the generic A, or B crossguard?

Regards,
Dion

Hello Dion, the dagger shown by david walsh had generic B fittings.
As you state correct, EICKHORNs are sometimes seen with (what I think period assembled) generic A crossguards (shunned by the not so well experienced collectors) but not the other way round.
Here are pics from david´s HACK example.
Regards,

Hi Wotan,

thanks a ton for those pics. So its generic B. Makes alot of sense that it would be generic fittings. My belief is that Eickhorn did at some stage use generic A for a very short time span. I've come across too many examples for them to have been swapped out for generic cross guards. The patina was the same on all fittings and the daggers had not looked like they had been apart. The source of those daggers was from the vets themselves, or at least their family. Its just my gut feeling that at some stage in the manufacturing period they ran out of cross guards and had to purchase a few generic types. But I guess we'll never know for sure!

regards,
Dion

Dion, for me there is also no question that EICKHORN did use a certain, small amount of at least generic A fittings during the period. We do not know why but I think it is quite clear, as you said, that they ran out of their own crossguards and needed any for an order.
Regards,