Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
Hello members I just acquired a near mint FW Holler Kreigsmarine dagger with ivory handle and Damascus blade It is not a Weimar or Imperial upgrade. I will post pictures. I need to know value. I estimate $8000 to $12,000 Apparently such naval daggers produced during the Third Reich are exceedingly rare and in high demand. For thhe record I have zero concerns regarding originality The blade was caked entirely in rust when I acquired the portepee has always been on the grip as the silver remains on the ivory where portepee contacts grip dagger is textbokk Holler to include all components cheers and best, Ryan

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,950
Likes: 9
Online Content
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,950
Likes: 9
Ryan, Very interested in seeing pics of this item.


GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
The blade was caked in surface rust I worked on it with apple cider vinegar with amazing results after an hour with vinegar and a soft cloth. Then I used a potatoe to clean the blade. The blade came out mint with zero rust. The dagger came with an Eickhorn 18 inch imperial naval dirk with blued presentation panels both were obtained directly from the family and have NEVER been in a collection. cheers, Ryan

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
P
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
Posting pics for Ryan as they come in now!

PVON

ryandag2b.jpg (259.96 KB, 190 downloads)
ryanda1a.jpg (245.97 KB, 190 downloads)
ryandag4f.jpg (151.39 KB, 191 downloads)
ryandag3.jpg (118.89 KB, 191 downloads)
ryandag5e.jpg (119.62 KB, 190 downloads)
ryan6d.jpg (119.62 KB, 190 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
P
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
next pics

rslogosssss.jpg (144.14 KB, 188 downloads)
rsscab2.jpg (143.01 KB, 187 downloads)
rsscab2.jpg (143.01 KB, 186 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
P
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
more coming

tiprs.jpg (169.29 KB, 186 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
P
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
knot

rsknot.jpg (143.56 KB, 186 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
P
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
blade

esblade3.jpg (85.53 KB, 185 downloads)
rsblade2.jpg (110.87 KB, 185 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
P
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
All right trying to post pics

they seem to move on me!

ryanbladetowardtop.jpg (150.95 KB, 181 downloads)
ryanbladetowardtop.jpg (150.95 KB, 181 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
P
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
ok next

Hi Paul group are a Damascus Kreigsmarine naval dagger by FW Holler with ivory grip portepee is tight, and has silver build up beneath where it has touched grip for 80 years blade was covered in rust you could hardly tell it was Damascus when I got it it was soooooo badly covered I brought it to original mint with one hour of apple cider vinegar and one potatoe and a soft cloth it is razor pointed and sharp no nicks one of a kind the next group of pics are 1872 naval cadet Imperial dirk 18' blade most are 13' double etched blued panels "For God, Kaiser and Reich" with dreadnoughts most have sailing ships I have never seen one with battleships the two came together from the family never in a collection the final is a WKC damascus with super deluxe scabbard outstanding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cheers, Ryan



trying to show 2nd dagger!

2ndnavydag6maker.jpg (162.45 KB, 177 downloads)
2ndnavypic5.jpg (131.4 KB, 177 downloads)
2ndnavydag6maker.jpg (162.45 KB, 176 downloads)
2ndnavdagpic4.jpg (147.77 KB, 176 downloads)
2ndnavydagpic3.jpg (135.37 KB, 176 downloads)
2ndnavypic5.jpg (131.4 KB, 176 downloads)
ryan2ndnav.jpg (108.36 KB, 176 downloads)
logo.jpg (144.14 KB, 176 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
P
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
more

2ndtop.jpg (67.64 KB, 193 downloads)
logo.jpg (144.14 KB, 193 downloads)
ryan2ndnav.jpg (108.36 KB, 193 downloads)
2ndnavpic2.jpg (156.02 KB, 193 downloads)
2ndnavydag6maker.jpg (162.45 KB, 193 downloads)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
The Imperial Damascus dagger is of the highest quallity the Monogram M with a crown??? there is a name appears to begin with an M and ends in mir.................wonder if it is possible to check a naval list there can't be that many officers of means with the surname M- - - mir any speculation if the crown over the M denotes anything? the scabbard isn't hammerred but appears to have hand enhanced delicate fish scales as does the crossguard ivory grip is spectacular shame about blade but it isn't that bad in person A truly amazing piece thanks for posting Paul cheers and best, Ryan

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
P
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
pics

closecrown.jpg (104.07 KB, 189 downloads)
nicecrown.jpg (100.24 KB, 189 downloads)
blade.jpg (131.31 KB, 189 downloads)
wkclogo.jpg (159.65 KB, 189 downloads)
backleather.jpg (110.26 KB, 189 downloads)
bluescabstapples.jpg (105.39 KB, 189 downloads)
bluescab.jpg (99.57 KB, 189 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
P
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
writing on blade

writing.jpg (119.61 KB, 188 downloads)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
The 1872 Imperial naval cadet dirk is 18' as oppsed to most that are 13' it is an ealy Carl Eickhorn, double etched blued blade with dreadnoughts as opposed to the more encountered galleons/sailing ships with "For God, Kaiser and Reich" came with FW Holler dagger from family cheers Ryan

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
P
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
missed the battleship pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

battle1.jpg (133.9 KB, 176 downloads)
battle7.jpg (90.98 KB, 176 downloads)
battle6.jpg (84.46 KB, 176 downloads)
battle5.jpg (85 KB, 176 downloads)
battle4.jpg (102.83 KB, 176 downloads)
battle3.jpg (102.73 KB, 176 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
P
Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,311
Likes: 18
last

battle2.jpg (141.18 KB, 175 downloads)
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 38
J
Online Content
J
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 38
hello !
very nice daggers !!
Just a comment concerning the carl eickhorn trademark of back-to -back squirrels in an oval either stamped or etched . This kind of trademark is not documented in specialized books and neither thomas johnson nor tom wittman have already seen this trademark . do anybody have more info about this trademark ??
jean-marie

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 132
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 132
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by jean
hello !
very nice daggers !!
Just a comment concerning the carl eickhorn trademark of back-to -back squirrels in an oval either stamped or etched . This kind of trademark is not documented in specialized books and neither thomas johnson nor tom wittman have already seen this trademark . do anybody have more info about this trademark ??
jean-marie

I share the same concern, so far i have not seen an etched eickhorn logo on an imperial naval dagger that was original.
And this triple oval for sure has been etched.

Ger

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
I concur about the trademark I will just add that before 2018 neither TOM w or TOM j had seen a heer dagger with a double etched Luftwaffe and Army eagle either Witty loved it and it can be seen in him WAM video and Tom Johnson said when showed "You can now say both Toms love it" any other concerns about cadet's dirk I'm open cheers, Ryan

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,839
Likes: 11
Offline
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,839
Likes: 11
Hello Gerrit1963, what do you think of the TM in the HOELLER damast blade??? I have never seen a HOELLER TM with dots, normally the lines inside the thermometer do not all meet the outer line and the shoulders are not straight but bevelled? I do understand that damast is a special thing but the two TMs seem to be basicly different.


I have studied the most comprehensive Solingen TM book and could also not find an EICKHORN back-to-back-squirrel-in-double-oval TM.

Regards,

HOELLER TM comb.JPG (93.59 KB, 215 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
Hello gents I will not be offended by opinions ig you feel thhe Damascus blade is not good please let me know also for the dirk I posted so I can take both good and bad would it be safe to say the naval dagger fittings are all Holler? thanks Ryan

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,839
Likes: 11
Offline
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,839
Likes: 11
Hello Ryan aka sellick8302@rogers.com, it is not easy if not impossible to judge damast blades simply from pics. You should have it in hands. In this case I can only refer to the maker mark as shown which I do not like and I did highlight the differences to a known original mark on a normal steel blade.
As far as I can see the fittings of the dagger are HOELLER. What imho does not support the for me at least questionable damast blade to become a sure period one.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 132
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 132
Likes: 1
I have a large database of daggers that i own(ed) and looking at the different Höller logo's that i have (and seen on internet) none have the thermometer touching the outhercirkel and none have dots instead of lines.
I see no reason why a logo on a damast blade would have it differently.
I know that damast can have different logo styles (like henckels used on their top damast pieces) but in this case the logo differs only on a few minor points, more likely not an original etch sjablone.

About the imperial Eickhorn logo on that Applikants its not only a logo that has not been seen before but the big red flag is that its etched, and on the imperial navy blades Eickhorn, as far as i know, always stamped their Logo.
A non original blade would have an etched logo as an etch sjablone can be easily made by laser, but a die stamp will be very expensive to produce.

Regards
Ger

Last edited by Gerrit1963; 09/20/2021 08:36 PM.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,306
Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,306
The Holler Navy damast blade is 100% postwar and made not even in Germany...
The Applicant dagger blade I have seen this Eickhorn trademark a few times before and at the very best on the fence with them.. The last I saw was on a Imperial Navy officers dagger long model.. Did not like that item..
There is also imperial WKC etched logo imperial navies out there all postwar..
Also be aware of bad Pack, Alcoso and Eickhorn Imperial navies out there with (new, last 30 years) made die stamped logos..

Last edited by DAMAST; 09/21/2021 03:27 PM.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
So Damast The dagger is all Holler and the grip is ivory the age quality and finish is perfect the blade is real Damascus where and when were these blades made and by whom? thanks, Ryan

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,380
Likes: 17
Offline
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,380
Likes: 17
Ryan,

Pakistan ?

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,306
Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by sellick8302@rogers.com
So Damast The dagger is all Holler and the grip is ivory the age quality and finish is perfect the blade is real Damascus where and when were these blades made and by whom? thanks, Ryan


Yes, you read my post correctly.. This is very old news.
Remember you are buying the blade.. You are blinded by all of the window dressing and the false aging to the blade..
The blade was made in India. They have been sold by U.S. reproduction dealers and also the person from India who reps the company at the SOS and MAX show in the recent years. 20+ Some bad dealers age them etc...
Army, luft, Navy blades and also Luft sword blades .
These are all over the place dealers sites and also e-bay (many of these pop up there).

Last edited by DAMAST; 09/22/2021 02:14 PM.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,306
Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by sellick8302@rogers.com
Hello gents I will not be offended by opinions ig you feel thhe Damascus blade is not good please let me know also for the dirk I posted so I can take both good and bad would it be safe to say the naval dagger fittings are all Holler? thanks Ryan

OK you seem offended.

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
Damast I am NOT offended in the least I merely asked if the remainder of the dagger was real I have zero money in the two as it was a large trade deal and I have full money back I am good my friend my replies were polite and professional I merely wanted more info other than "bad post war not made in Germany" the GDC forum rules at one time required this if one was pronouncing an item as "bad" I trust both you and your reputation I will just say the fakers put lots of effort in these fakes as they are very high quality with high grade ivory grips Do you have any idea how old the ivory grips are? Is it possible that the grips are old or period? cheers and best, Ryan

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,950
Likes: 9
Online Content
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,950
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by DAMAST
Yes, you read my post correctly.. This is very old news.
Remember you are buying the blade.. You are blinded by all of the window dressing and the false aging to the blade.

I believe this is excellent advice, not only when considering a damascus blade but also a Rohm dagger, Himmler dagger or any other such specialty piece. Focus where the money is and don’t be distracted by details which fakers have gradually improved.


GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 250
S
Offline
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 250
The Applicanten bayonet is a well known post war fake unfortunately. That Eichorn trademark is atrocious. It is a dead giveaway in terms of design and the fact that it is etched. We have observed these before on Weimar and 1902 pattern officer daggers. Sorry.


Wanted: German Naval Edged Weapons and Related Accouterments
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 250
S
Offline
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 250
For clarification: We have observed this Eichorn trademark on postwar FAKE Weimar and 1902 Pattern Imperial navy officer daggers as well.


Wanted: German Naval Edged Weapons and Related Accouterments
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,610
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,610
If Damast says the blade originates from India, and the knows the dealer, I would reverse your trade - forthwith.

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 3
I appreciate all replies funny I posted a 100% period and killer Imperial Naval dirk with the best scabbard in this same post and NO one mentioned it at all......LoL


Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,207,131 SS Bayonets
1,703,531 Teno Insignia Set
1,071,754 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
SS Dagger Rem
by ollar - 10/17/2021 06:25 AM
SS dagger
by ollar - 10/16/2021 04:10 AM
SA Dagger, need experts opinion
by Vik L - 10/15/2021 08:48 AM
Manions was a dumping ground! Who now!!!!!!
by pvon - 10/13/2021 12:33 AM
Norway War and Bravery Medals War Cross
by JohnZ - 10/12/2021 06:27 PM
Latest New Posts
SS Dagger Rem
by ollar - 10/17/2021 06:25 AM
SS dagger
by ollar - 10/17/2021 03:39 AM
SA dagger hanger
by Skynyrd - 10/16/2021 06:40 PM
Norwegian Frontsoster
by JohnZ - 10/16/2021 03:18 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics30,910
Posts320,399
Members7,022
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
8 members (Billy G., Documentalist, Nietzsche, atis, mai65, hdmarley, Honestmike, Vern), 49 guests, and 67 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5