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#350420 07/05/2021 06:56 PM
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den70 Offline OP
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GD was, for me, the first site where, in addition to books, I got to get knowledge. Since not all members of the GD, are present on other forums and Facebook, where I have a small group about DLV55 daggers. Therefore, I consider it useful to publish some of my thoughts here as well. Colleagues, I am bringing to your judgment a little essay about DLV / LW1 dagger. At the moment I am preparing for publication a website about the varieties of DLV55 daggers. And your help will be useful to me both with photo materials and possibly with documents.

Quite often in collections there are LW1 M35 daggers, which feature scabbards fittings similar to M34 daggers. Among such daggers, there is only a part of manufacturers who previously produced the DLV55 model. It is logical to assume that those companies that made the old model began to manufacture a new one using their leftover stock parts. Thus, we can consider the period of production of such daggers in 1935, before the production of LW1 dagger. But as it is often said the devil is in the details.

First, among early manufactures Eickhorn and Weiersberg produced those transit daggers. For the rest of manufactures it was a new product, so it is impossible to claim that they progressed from the old model to a new one. Moreover, some "transitional" scabbards feature a new bottom fitting consisting of 2 segments, in contrast to 4 on DLV daggers. This proves that these are products of the new design. In addition to this there is another very significant feature. There are "transitional" daggers manufactured by Eickhorn. It would seem that everything is logical and there are no nuances. For transitional models this manufacturer used staples to retain scabbard mounts in contrast to DLV daggers of their production. All the daggers produced by this manufacturer featured screw mounts. Thus, it could not have been the company's leftover stock parts, the scabbard bottom fitting featured 2 segments. Subsequently, it can be assumed that a scabbard was made by a minor subcontractor according to a new design, but for technological reasons the mounts were done as it was previously. After the introduction of the new model, the demand on new daggers increased significantly, that is why we see so many manufacturers of the LW1 dagger. Probably due to a large number of orders, the manufacturers did not have enough time to fulfil orders completely by themselves. Therefore, some manufactures had to buy scabbards, which did not meet their standards. Another argument is that the staples are not a distinctive feature of the '34 model, but a feature of some manufacturers. As mentioned above, this resulted from technical capabilities. But by 1935 all companies had been able to make scabbards according to more advanced technology without staples.

Of course, these are assumptions, but they are based on the co-operation documents for other types of daggers, new manufactures of LW1 dagger who had no stock, and unusual Eickhorn scabbards. Thus, these daggers were produced at the same time as the standard ones, and are not transitional, which is the case with SA daggers, when the manufacturer produced early daggers to the new standards using the old components. In this case, I believe, the components were purchased from a subcontractor if the company could not keep up with the main order.

Description to the photo:


1. Pack DLV/LW1 dagger. Photo credit T.Wittmann
2. Eickhorn DLV/LW1 dagger. Photo credit P.Hogle
3. Scabard tip 2 segments, from Luftwaffe dagger M35 on brackets. Photo credit from P.Hogle.
4. Dagger DLV M34. Photo credit Herman Historiсa.
5. Late alluminium Luftwaffe dagger M35 with scabbard on brackets. Photo credit Privat collection.


If Dave and Vern don't mind, I would post a link to the group on FB.

image_4995456.jpg (60.76 KB, 107 downloads)
image_4995461.jpg (57.9 KB, 107 downloads)
image_4995462.jpg (37.75 KB, 107 downloads)
image_4995463.jpg (59.4 KB, 107 downloads)
image_4995464.jpg (30.56 KB, 107 downloads)

Buy Casberg sketches.
den70 #350421 07/05/2021 07:59 PM
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E
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den70

I WANT ONE !!!

Very nice, I still do not have one of those early DLVs.

Ed

den70 #350422 07/05/2021 09:33 PM
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Ed,

They are fairly rare but occasionally out there. Some are cut down with the grip wire added and those are also uncommon. Be careful however, there are some excellent fakes of the Weyersberg and Henckels.


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den70 #350423 07/05/2021 09:58 PM
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Hello den70, as you have written, the devil lays in the details. E.g. there have been much more manufacturers of true DLV55cm daggers, I have at least 7 in my files, even some more unmarked models and a retailer marked one. I do have wearing pics of different models, even of a totally unknown(!) model clearly resembling the DLV55cm, worn by a DLV member, but nevertheless explicitly differing in details. So the whole case is even much more complicated.

When I did start collecting it was nearly impossible to find a DLV55cm with undamaged scabbard. By damaged I mean the more or less (mostly more) wavy outer shape. The grips often lacked parts of leather. The scabbard fittings had dents. 10-15 years ago suddenly the DLV55cm (the WEYERBERG model, several manufacturers) did pop up here and there and all were in nearly perfect condition. The material was at least spurious (for me). Since that time it is very difficult for collectors to buy a doubtless original DLV55cm WEYERSBERG model, it was still safe to stay with the EICKHORN model (also produced by at least one other manufacturer). But finally, we know it is always the same, also the EICKHORN model bekame faked.

The fact that there is few known about these daggers, there is also few sure material to compare with, makes collecting very difficult. (who from us dares to say what materials were used with ORIGINAL DLV55cm daggers, what are the features to detect faked daggers, what are the differences between between fakes and originals???).

den70, I appreciate your attempt very much. These daggers are very interesting, historical artefacts and originals are very rare because these were most early daggers (look at the DLV sword of teh sae period which is nearly unknown to most collectors), unconfortably to wear (because of their length) and often converted to the later model. I wrote just my thoughts and observations to this interesting thema and, sorry, no, I will not show pics.

Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
den70 #350424 07/05/2021 10:36 PM
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den70 Offline OP
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Wotan, thanks for your post. I also have information about 10 manufacturers of DLV55. These are 7 manufacturing factories, 2 distributors and unmarked samples. I cannot say that my list is absolutely correct. Since I do not have enough information about all of these manufacturers. I agree with you that there are many fakes. Some of the forgeries have been revealed thanks to information that the late Barry Brown has kindly shared. Therefore, I repeat my thought if you do not share information and do not transfer it further, it will be easier for fraudsters to deceive us. But this topic was created about LW1 daggers with a scabbard repeating the method of attachment as on a dagger DLV.


Buy Casberg sketches.
den70 #350425 07/06/2021 01:46 AM
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den,

Many thanks for sharing your knowledge here. More info and photos welcome !

Dave

den70 #350428 07/06/2021 05:32 PM
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A cut down Eickhorn purchased from Craig ages ago.

Obverse Grip.JPG (33.53 KB, 73 downloads)
Obverse.JPG (29.8 KB, 73 downloads)
Reverse.JPG (28.82 KB, 73 downloads)
Reverse Grip.JPG (31.38 KB, 73 downloads)
Obverse Crossguard.JPG (39.04 KB, 74 downloads)
Reverse Crossguard.JPG (42.01 KB, 73 downloads)
Obverse Pommel.JPG (33.92 KB, 73 downloads)

Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
den70 #350430 07/06/2021 05:51 PM
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Den,

Excellent work on this project. Which manufacturers do you need pictures of?


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JohnZ #351382 08/21/2021 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnZ
A cut down Eickhorn purchased from Craig ages ago.

Hello JohnZ, when looking at this wondeful EICKHORN, the length of blade and scabbard, so -please- what is cut down? From your pics it does not look like it would have the proper (short) length of a 1st luft???
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
den70 #351397 08/22/2021 02:10 PM
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Woman, I no longer possess this dagger so cannot adequately respond. But, I did buy this from Craig as a cut down version.

Maybe, the shortened version did not go all the way to a Luft1 length?

Johnz


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.

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