UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories The Honor Ring Forum How important is Don Boyle paper! Now!

Hello collectors!

I know nothing about SS rings and such! But back in the day I know if you wanted to
sell or even find out if its real!

Then Don Boyle was the man! No paper of authentication and certification and you had no luck in selling!

I see he has a face book and web site on internet!

Just a fast copy of it!








MR. DON BOYLE AUTHENTICATION AND CERTIFICATION
We have been asked many times for advice regarding authentication and certification of original Third Reich artifacts. In answer to this need we created the “Authentication and Certification" section.

For anyone with these sorts of questions please email Don Boyle at:

honorringman@verizon.net or honorringman@webtv.net

Although Don is most widely known for his expertise on SS Honor Rings, Hitler and Himmler artifacts and signatures and all SS objects he is also well versed on all Third Reich related subjects. His credentials include:

The author of "SS Totenkopf H. Himmler Honor Ring 1933 – 1945".

A life member of the prestigious MAX Show.

He sits of the MAX Show Board of Authenticators

Is a contributing writer to magazines such as the "Military Trader" and the "Military Advisor".

Is credited and/or pictured in Third Reich reference books by well known authors Tom Johnson and John Angolias.

You may deal with Don in complete confidence.



My question is it still the case if a collector wanted to sell is that paper still a must!

I know Craig wrote a book and tried but don't think he had much luck!

Our friend Andy or Military Nut used to set up next to Don at Max shows! Andy was a player!

Here is pic I took of some of his rings!

I hear Don's paper work is now faked or forged by some!

Question I have is if something happens to Don! What does the market do! Will it affect rings!


PVON

A good question pvon. Maybe even a grenade too

My opinion only, but it depends. On a questionable ring without provenance really not worth spending 250.00. Rings with provenance, not really either. When rings started getting the attention in the early days, the 25.00 fee was reasonable and affordable. Now days, with the internet and instantaneous reviews, you can get history and approval/disapproval you need on the forums.
This in no way diminishes Dons expertise and knowledge of these rings. He has probably forgotten more than we will ever know about them. His contributions to the historical importance should not be condemned.
Ron

Antonio has also really made some significant contributions himself to the ring discussion in all aspects. These remain the holy grail for ring collectors regardless.

Dons certification paper now is not correct. His theory about how they were made is incorrect.. A look back thru the topic here on HR manufacture and it is painfully obvious.
For many years he went unchallenged on his theories because he wrote THE book on the subject.. Self published 1st in 1993, for its time the book still had a lot of good information and history about the ring..

As with anything! Things written in books and such change as more info becomes available! Interesting!

But does his certification still carry the weight it once did? Does others in the field do that!

I know if I was a collector and with the cost of the rings I would need something more than chatter on face book!

Remember the papers for helmets,daggers and many things dealers sold came with such a paper!

And now many realize that decals and daggers,etched etc are wrong!

Large amount of money has been lost and collectors very unhappy! Like anything! Stuff changes and so do opinions!

Some times you can't get folks to agree! Look at the microscope fella! New ways being promoted! Who knows!

And what recoarse do collectors have if opinion is wrong later! OOOPS! Made a mistake! Trying to establish time line for anything is getting harder
as time passes and vets are gone!

Heck look at big museums who have been fooled! Some one is always trying to figure out how to scam!


Interesting topic!

PVON

P.,, My daughter is a art restorer for a museum here in NY. IF you knew the amount of fakes they come across its frightening!!



- Don always assumed this, assumed that.. And, when you assume you make a ass out of U and me.. ,, anyway.


Dons CoAs are worthless especially when this new book comes out.. Sure there will be those that will still go and pay their $250 and say 'My HR is real because Don says it is'.... SO what happens when he no longer walks the earth?! The market will cease to be? No other HR can be authentic because Don isn't here to say it is?!

Paul, your a dagger man.. Do you still need TW to certify your pieces after all your years of collecting?? I hope not ,that would be extremely sad..

Dons cert is not needed because he was wrong in his conclusions. True he was a pioneer on the subject. Self publishing in 1993,,,he had some cool findings, some cool history.... But he rested on his laurels. Never thinking to improve, move forward, to go further, *to document his opinion with any kind of facts..


SO, in the end run we are getting another book without all the facts . The most important chapters on 'why the HR isn't just die pressed after he presents it will be plain to see for everyone. IF Science , Technology, is your thing he will provide from them the HRs exact metallurgy for the different types and 'electron microscope work proving how the HR was made...Surprise surprise,,,its not how Don thought.....

Interesting discussion! Thats what it all about!

I was thinking of a thread on the papers that certify a object! Things have changed since the hobby started after the war!

From Attwood to Johnson,TW,Kelley Hicks,Bill Shea Craig G, just to name a few who have wrote papers to certify items!

Not including the guys that wrote books or early reference things!

Much is deemed way out of date for the times! But in its time thats how the hobby evolved!

Now face book,forums and electronics provide info in a instant! New day and world!

Remeber when collectors waited for snail mail and a sale list! Der Frog and that list! Gauliter or something! That was a early collectors
tool!

God help us even Manions and others were a eager item we waited for!

Things look so out of date now,but in its day was cutting edge!

Craig wrote a book on Honor Rings! How did that go! Any of many coffee table books with superb pictures captured are attention!


Refrence books are never cheap! Many colectors have always wanted something for free! Others gladly paid!

Who is right? Depends I quess on if it helps you the collector!


How many folks have owned or handled a real SS ring?

How many have done the same with Honor daggers,SS chained daggers? Etc!


I thank you for your thoughts and ideas!

Only time will prove any of us right!


PVON