Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#348979 03/30/2021 05:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
den70 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
Gentlemen, I propose not to litter the main topic, but create a separate one in which we can add copies and discuss them. I have some files. I think it will be useful not only to publish photos, but to briefly explain the apparent reasons. We will not post a deeper analysis for open access. But if you do not indicate the visible differences, some visitors may consider that we are denigrating items for some personal reason.

In this thread, I propose to add both SA and SS daggers. I think there are not so many good fakes to make different topics.


Buy Casberg sketches.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
den70 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
This is probably the simplest copy. Wrong manufacturer. And the type of TM that was not used on this type of cold steel.


Buy Casberg sketches.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
den70 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
The next copy is no less simple. The same mistake of scammers, wrong manufacturer and eagle in the hilt.

photo_2021-03-30_20-09-03.jpg (79.69 KB, 230 downloads)
photo_2021-03-30_20-09-23.jpg (67.4 KB, 231 downloads)
photo_2021-03-30_20-09-41.jpg (32.38 KB, 230 downloads)
photo_2021-03-30_20-09-26.jpg (117.43 KB, 231 downloads)

Buy Casberg sketches.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
den70 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
I think such an object should pull, if not on Rem's dagger, then on his adjutants. Chain Christmas dagger. It's good that the manufacturer was not confused. But they made many small nuances that cannot be on this dagger. This certainly does not apply to the chain.

photo_2021-03-30_20-16-49.jpg (33 KB, 232 downloads)
SMALL_A_2_166.JPG (135.29 KB, 231 downloads)
SMALL_A_2_167.JPG (129.56 KB, 232 downloads)
SMALL_A_2_169.JPG (121.5 KB, 231 downloads)

Buy Casberg sketches.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
den70 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
This is a fairly rare fake, as it mainly copies the daggers of Eichhorn. But it is so crude that you can immediately see it is a copy.

photo_2021-03-30_20-23-36.jpg (159.61 KB, 233 downloads)
photo_2021-03-30_20-23-40.jpg (127.41 KB, 231 downloads)
photo_2021-03-30_20-23-28.jpg (148.11 KB, 230 downloads)

Buy Casberg sketches.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
den70 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
Another dagger made for Pak. It's good that again it is so rude and of poor quality.

image_3399979.jpg (105.61 KB, 226 downloads)
121212121.jpg (69.36 KB, 227 downloads)
image_3399994.jpg (62.34 KB, 226 downloads)
image_3399966.jpg (62.37 KB, 226 downloads)

Buy Casberg sketches.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
den70 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
Now there are better quality fakes. It will be much more difficult for a novice collector to distinguish them. But the scammers made some mistakes.

image_4913240.jpg (64.6 KB, 226 downloads)
image_4913249.jpg (77.03 KB, 229 downloads)
image_4913251.jpg (66.41 KB, 226 downloads)

Buy Casberg sketches.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
den70 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
Another Eckhorn. Also a high-quality craft, but little things also give it out. Especially the internal ones.

Last edited by den70; 03/30/2021 05:36 PM.

Buy Casberg sketches.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
den70 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
In my opinion, this is one of the best fakes. Perhaps you will show others and there will be something better among them.

photo_2021-03-30_20-41-57.jpg (50.85 KB, 222 downloads)
photo_2021-03-30_20-41-51.jpg (26.72 KB, 223 downloads)
photo_2021-03-30_20-42-01.jpg (77.7 KB, 222 downloads)
photo_2021-03-30_20-42-07.jpg (58.07 KB, 222 downloads)

Buy Casberg sketches.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 25
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 25
Hi Den,

That is real great pictorial information that you posted, here!
Many thanks for your efforts!

It clearly illustrates that it took the fakers quite some time, before they got the eagle right!

Unfortunately, that is now history...

Best regards,

Herman


"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 49
Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 49
Yes, Thanks Den

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 49
Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 49
Interesting to note that many of the fake Prototypes have that "heart-chested pelican"

121212121.jpg (19.85 KB, 251 downloads)
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,612
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,612
Den, Excellent pictorial presentation on what I call the 'East Block Christmas Fakes'.

Primary proof the fakers keep improving on their product as time goes by.

-Serge

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
den70 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
We continue to publish fakes. Unfortunately, not all photos are of good quality or large size. But so far, the scammers have failed to achieve a good result. Another Pack. This one is much better, but we still bring out this copy.

SMALL_A_208.jpg (102.56 KB, 178 downloads)

Buy Casberg sketches.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
den70 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
Another fake Eick, with laser etching.

1ц1.jpg (83.06 KB, 173 downloads)

Buy Casberg sketches.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 25
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 25
Very interesting pictures, Den! Thanks!

You are right, that last Pack starts to look dangerous, except for the eagle...

Best regards,

Herman


"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 49
Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 49
Here are some more

Grip.jpg (21.94 KB, 142 downloads)
DSCF0030.JPG (29.91 KB, 143 downloads)
Both Grips.jpg (64.45 KB, 142 downloads)
Dagger 2.jpg (137.54 KB, 142 downloads)
Eickhorn Front.jpg (102.82 KB, 142 downloads)
Selh fake dagger.jpg (43.51 KB, 142 downloads)
Selh Eagle blurred 2.jpg (37.15 KB, 142 downloads)
IMG_0448.JPG (79.06 KB, 142 downloads)
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 25
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 25
What an amazing variety of fake eagles and Christmas daggers!
There must be about 100 fakes for each original Christmas dagger around!

It also explains why so many original parts, lose SA blades and SA grips, are offered for sale...

Best regards,

Herman


"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 49
Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 49
Add these Pre-Production eagles wink grin

Eagle lapel pins - small.jpg (60.66 KB, 114 downloads)
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 653
Likes: 14
E
Online Content
E
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 653
Likes: 14
Wow, this has been really interesting.
Seems like there is a endless supply of parts for such a rare dagger.
But what do I know.
Ed

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 49
Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 49
You are right, Ed.

The starting point is an SA dagger and those are in free supply in any condition you want. Stickpins also easy to find. A laser done blade is harder to find, I'd guess, but not too hard.

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 2
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 2
one of my personal fav's

514abdafdd63684193c98f10f0553ba3d.jpg (89.02 KB, 91 downloads)

GDC silver member #393
1 member likes this: den70
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 2
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 2
description from the seller:
Use of original parts and use of old tools.

This type was issued in only a few numbers (so-called Christmas dagger 1933). Contemporaries. Originals are in the intern. Military market (Max-Show) in the high four-digit range traded. Orig. heavy nickel silver fittings with manufacturer "H" and Abn. "S" and matriculation "3". Original blade blank Forged steel with forge mark "A18", old oxide. Angel (eagle) - this one worked up after 45 and so finished

1be367e69a1f22a9be6711600f3dc7b83.jpg (63.38 KB, 90 downloads)

GDC silver member #393
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 49
Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 49
Thanks, Sturm,

Looks like they ruined a good EP&S.

Dave

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
den70 Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 251
Thank sturmbrigade, for showing this copy. Blades for Christmas dagger are sold separately on ebee.

Dave, I'm not sure if this is a corrupted original dagger. In my opinion this is a completely new-made item. In addition to laser etching, you can see the wrong brand on tang instead of SAN - OAN

s-l1600 cris.jpg (109.33 KB, 75 downloads)
s-l1600 crist.jpg (135.93 KB, 75 downloads)
s-l1600.jpg (118.91 KB, 75 downloads)
s-l1600 crismas.jpg (132.91 KB, 75 downloads)

Buy Casberg sketches.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,068
Likes: 15
Offline
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,068
Likes: 15
Nice mistake on the tang mark, close but not cigar.


GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,226,141 SS Bayonets
1,726,431 Teno Insignia Set
1,088,659 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Help needed please
by Dudgeon - 12/04/2022 08:53 AM
Jungschutzen Korps, Wolfsburg
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 12/04/2022 12:02 AM
New Indiana Jones !
by Dave - 12/01/2022 10:50 PM
Searching for Carl Blumenreuter H R
by Gaspare - 11/30/2022 04:56 PM
Black Grip SA
by Vern - 11/29/2022 12:35 PM
Latest New Posts
What is this Org. ?
by derjager - 12/04/2022 09:06 PM
Help needed please
by Dave - 12/04/2022 02:24 PM
Jungschutzen Korps, Wolfsburg
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 12/04/2022 02:08 AM
Kyffhuserbund and N.S. Reichskriegerbund badges.
by derjager - 12/04/2022 01:54 AM
C. E. Schmachtenberg, Solingen
by Dave - 12/03/2022 10:39 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,332
Posts324,649
Members7,261
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
13 members (Vern, Dave, Jonesy, ed773, benten, SpitfireVb, atis, derjager, sod, seany, ORPO, Nietzsche, Ringo69), 98 guests, and 58 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5