Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#344338 08/28/2019 11:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
[img]http://https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBhYc7WXUAE6klV?format=jpg&name=small[/img]

This somewhat different item surfaced at a small fair in a local school hall about 6 weeks ago and any thoughts on it would be greatly appreciated. The original seller and another highly respected dealer (who has seen the photos), both noted a number of unusual features - 3 in this picture alone - but think that the dagger is legitimate.

Guidance on the net is a little confused, varying from describing this type of dagger as a "myth" to "extremely rare", even without the additional oddities in this case.

If people can access this image and would be interested in seeing more, please let me know.

EBhYc7WXUAE6klV.jpg (15.49 KB, 328 downloads)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,890
Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,890
I would like to know the name of the well known dealer that says this dagger is OK.
Your link does not work and based on this one photo I would say this is parts at best. The crossguards look like they may be Spanish. But, I am no expert.

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
Let's try another couple of photos. The solid nickel cross guards do have the correct internal stamps matching to each other, by the way and appear to follow a recognised but slightly unsual pattern Sorry if I am not too good with the technology - function of age and ignorance. Further photos to follow in separate posts.

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBhYXvfWkAEjugC?format=jpg&name=4096x4096[/img]



Sorry to jump in here. But these links will with time disappear and the topic as helpful and interesting as it is will be worthless..
This is your same photo. I have just trimmed,,cropped , away some excess. I believe all computers have this capability..
IF it is still a bit too big then you will only have to cut down size a small amount. The 'For Sale' and 'Computer Help' forums
here have links to help do that.. , Gaspare

z.jpg (36.93 KB, 266 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 08/29/2019 02:57 PM.
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
Motto - admittedly overpolished, but then maybe the old adage applied in Germany as well as Britain - "if it moves, salute it. If it doesn't, polish it."https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBhYxZCXoAESJF1?format=jpg&name=smallG.




- this photo the right size to post directly on:..,G.

Zmark.jpg (36.6 KB, 260 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 08/29/2019 03:00 PM.
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
Another view of hilt, minus cross guard. Doesn't look immediately like an NSKK over-enthusiastic repaint job.[img]http://https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECkvIcTXUAIpPkl?format=jpg&name=medium[/img]

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
Scabbard throat looks fine to me - none of the waves at the ends.[img]http://https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBhY_G4WkAA2r32?format=jpg&name=4096x4096[/img]

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
The seller thought the scabbard had been repainted as the surface looked to have a texture. Others (all laymen admittedly) looked at the enlarged image here and agreed that this was not the way anodising or paint aged and nor was the gap between the covering and the chape a scratch which somehow miraculously missed the immediately adjoining the nickel. Generally, the scabbard fittings are in good shape - the ball has had a couple of minor dinks over the years and there are minor surface scratches on other parts of the fittings. The covering shows wear to both sides. Ignore the "shine" - this was a combination of the light and a new coat of protective wax. "Soaked back", the natural colour is a matt/satin black.[img]http://https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECpzlX4AEQmPb?format=jpg&name=large[/img]

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,452
Likes: 20
Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,452
Likes: 20
Can you please tell us the name of the dealer, as Jim W asked ?

Also, please post photos, not links.

Thanks,
Dave

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,134
Likes: 42
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,134
Likes: 42
Dave,, the links to help him out:

Our photo size for members is 125kb / 1.2kb .

Here is 2 links from our site for ,,How to post photos,,and photo resizing.. Don't forget,,try simple cropping first!

http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/~germand2/ubbthreads.php/topics/233445/how-to-post-photos.html#Post233445

http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/~germand2/ubbthreads.php/topics/233446/how-to-post-photos.html#Post233446

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 10
Apologies if I have messed up the IT bit. I'll see if I can get one of my children to help. Trouble is, two of them have been out and about enjoying the end of the school holidays (and they are teachers). My daughter is in China or Hong Kong or Spain or Wales or...

May I ask why the name of the dealers are so important - the one who sold the dagger and the second who I consulted as a favour on a photo-only basis? The seller was happy to issue a receipt stating "Genuine, original early SA marine dagger with original scabbard". The second dealer said that the item was definitely a bit odd but that the totality seemed to work and no one bit appeared to be obviously "off" - just unsual: "white" nickel fittings; black roundel background,etc. He would obviously need to handle the dagger to issue a definitive view. And as one respected US dealer comments, 1933 daggers were "a la carte".

I cannot put these dealers' names on the forum without their very express permisson when there are suggestions that a "parts" dagger has been peddled as genuine - even if the cross-guards are solid nickel, correctly internally stamped to each other, and show a metal-to-metal fit (including to the scabbard throat) and wood-to-metal fit (subject to unavoidable shrinkage across the gain) which beats even a 1052/38SS. Asking such permission could wreck a long-standing and valued business relationship.

Thank you all for your time and tips. As soon I can grab one of my children and manacle him or her to the kitchen table, I will try and send compliant pictures.

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,529
Likes: 10
Online Content
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,529
Likes: 10
Out of curiosity, what are the initials inside the crossguards? A point of interest, the "Sa" Gau stamp on the lower crossguard is for Sachsen (Saxony), a land-locked state in Germany. My references do not show an SA Marine unit in that Gau.


[Linked Image from germandaggers.com]
Visit us at www.GermanDaggers.com
Contact me at Vern@GermanDaggers.com
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 1
Why did you post it here since you are asking legitimacy ?

If your dealer associate is a long standing business relationship then there are no issues of answering the request of his name. If his reputation is golden then there is nothing to worry about any questions being asked about the dagger or the source....then theres nothing to hide.

If you wish not to supply the source then the Gents here most likely will either not help you or totally pull apart your dagger without disassembly.
This is what we do here by seeking the truth and less about stories and hiding identities.

Too much anymore in this day and age of fraud and deception are fleecing the pockets of the less studied and new collectors. The cancer is a 3 way street with the dagger, the source and a story attached.

Nothing personal Mr Benger ..its all about the dagger.

Regards Larry


Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 512
Likes: 3
E
Offline
E
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 512
Likes: 3
So!!!
What about the dagger???
Ed


Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,211,580 SS Bayonets
1,707,967 Teno Insignia Set
1,074,985 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
USA & UA
by Gaspare - 01/21/2022 03:04 AM
RLB P.Wayersberg Dagger, determining originality
by norg - 01/19/2022 05:56 PM
REVISED and UPDATED
by Von Ryan - 01/19/2022 12:25 AM
Tom Wittmann's down in the cellar
by ed773 - 01/17/2022 09:41 PM
1st Pattern RLB
by JRM37007 - 01/16/2022 05:22 PM
Latest New Posts
USA & UA
by ed773 - 01/21/2022 02:29 PM
U.K. collectors?
by Gaspare - 01/21/2022 02:08 AM
Organizational Pins/Badges. A new beginning.
by derjager - 01/20/2022 10:48 PM
RLB P.Wayersberg Dagger, determining originality
by Billy G. - 01/20/2022 07:17 PM
SA Moto variant
by Dave - 01/19/2022 07:39 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,014
Posts321,355
Members7,093
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
5 members (Vern, Ronald Weinand, Dave, sellick8302@rogers.com, Ruiter58), 23 guests, and 75 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5