Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,541
Likes: 169
G
Gaspare Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,541
Likes: 169
A very long story as short as I can make it...

Years ago there was a story about a magnificent ring the belonged to A.H. I spent years finding it. Then a couple years proving beyond a shadow of a doubt it was authentic and was presented to Hitler. The owner was a golden age collector of high end 3rd reich regalia. He had many wonderful and famous pieces.
One that he had that I got to inspect a few times in hand was the famous Herman Goring broach,,or tie cravat..

A excellent piece made famous by HG wearing it on the cover of TIME magazine in 1940.. The same photo was also a full page spread in LIFE magazine also..

So here is the TIME cover:

HGTa.jpg (66.9 KB, 207 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 08/16/2019 05:12 AM.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,541
Likes: 169
G
Gaspare Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,541
Likes: 169
The original owner was 3rd in line from the soldier who originally got it. It ended up at a Ohio [Cleveland] pawn shop!!

The collector having competition from other collectors in the Cleveland area had his sh*t together! Since he couldn't be everywhere he regularly made small payoffs to the Pawn shop owners, antique stores, Flea markets etc. That IF anything even remotely hinted at being military from any war, any country that they were to call him immediately..
So he gets the call from the pawn shop. Seems the owner was having tough times and decided to take the piece apart and sell off the gems, gold separably! It was made very well and the jeweler was having a tough time prying out the stones. So it was starting to be cut apart.. A few 'sapphires' and a few 'emeralds' were taken out. When the jeweler began checking the stones he found out they were real gems and had his Jewel guy come by and give the owner some money right on the spot! It was the end of the day and closed up for the night. He realized he forgot to call Bill [my friend and golden age collector]..

Bill had him immediately reopen the shop and met him there.. One look at it and he recognized it and wanted it no matter the price.. The next morning he met with the owner and made him a offer he could not refuse! He was now the owner or a cut up, some gems missing , wonderful piece of history..

Here it is:

DSCN9860.JPG (103.91 KB, 207 downloads)
HGT7.jpg (38.87 KB, 207 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,541
Likes: 169
G
Gaspare Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,541
Likes: 169
Whats weird is that the DJ emblem is a skull of a elk.. But as you can see this is a head,,with skin/fur etc. on it.. Guess they left that part out when discussing the piece. Anyway,,it is the only such piece to be like this.

So Bill tried to buy back the gems the jewel guy bought.. Seems the guy already sold them. Telling Bill they were some of the finest gems he had ever seen and got a small fortune for them! Bill was on a mission. To perfectly restore the piece no matter what the cost , time etc.

I have heard the Sapphires and Emeralds cost him a small fortune! That a couple times a week he'd go to the jeweler and check on the gems,, he had to see if they matched perfectly in size and quality! The jeweler was skilled but Bill was a fanatic and wanted every to be the same as it was . The goldsmithing was some of the best done and was replicated as such on the piece..

The Swastika that held the Sapphires was cut and damaged while getting the gems out. Bill wasn't happy no matter how many times it was tried to be repaired. SO, he had a new one made from scratch!.

This is one of the first photos of the reverse ever taken. It is the only photo where you can also see the original Swastika ,,, middlel , on pin.. Tough to see but there.
The reverse:

DSCN9858.JPG (88.28 KB, 205 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,541
Likes: 169
G
Gaspare Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,541
Likes: 169
I do know the piece cost more than $5k to repair and replace the gems,,,a lot in the early 70s.. They were, are , some of the finest Sapphires and Emeralds..

The hand work, details, fitment, finish, is magnificent! For me right up there as one of the finest pieces of 3rd reich jewelry..

A link to the German Hunting and Shooting dagger forum.. The first topic about the piece ,,made years ago..
Explains the fate and sale of the piece.

://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/~germand2/ubbthreads.php/topics/344223/gorings-time-cover-tie-piece.html#Post344223

Hope you enjoy it:

HGT2 (2).JPG (95.2 KB, 204 downloads)
HGT.jpg (43.74 KB, 205 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 08/16/2019 05:11 AM.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,541
Likes: 169
G
Gaspare Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,541
Likes: 169
more:

DSCN9860 (2).JPG (59.13 KB, 192 downloads)
HGT5.jpg (50.32 KB, 191 downloads)
DSCN9860 (3).JPG (111.81 KB, 192 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 493
Likes: 6
R
Offline
R
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 493
Likes: 6
Thank you, G.

A great story for a great piece of history.

R.

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 126
Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 126
Just simply beautiful Gaspar.


Natural Born American Citizen
American Patriot
U.S. Army Vet. 1969-'71 Spc.5 Field Artillery Crewman
Sworn by oath to support and defend the "CONSTITUTION" of the United States against all enemies, "FOREIGN" and "DOMESTIC"!
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 652
Likes: 14
E
Online Content
E
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 652
Likes: 14
Gaspar
Yes indeed, just beautiful.
Something about that emerald green just shoots out at me. Not to mention the swaz.
Reminds me of a shooting award dagger at last years SOS. Helmut Weitze had it, green grip and beautiful paneled blade just awsome.
Thank you so much for showing.
Ed

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Likes: 3
Offline
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Likes: 3
That is a masterpiece, in every sense on the word , Thankyou for showing

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,492
Likes: 3
D
Offline
D
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,492
Likes: 3
Intresting post. The photo of it in wear brings it to life. Thanks

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,541
Likes: 169
G
Gaspare Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,541
Likes: 169
Many guys here on the site don't look from one forum to another.. So I'm posting this for you guys, the guys that know jewelry..

On the hunting/shooting dagger forum I posted the original topic about this piece years ago.. I had a photo of the reverse I had promised I'd never post while the owner was alive. It showed the original Swastika that had been rebuilt. I still believe its the only photo of it.. Anyway,,

Seems some guys on the other forum don't like the piece.! It has a great provenance. But they don't like the provenance,,or doesn't mean anything [?].. It came From the Sgt. that originally acquired it , to his friend, to the pawn shop that called Bill Blynn ,[who has since passed away a few years ago]. Mr.Blynn went to many lengths going about documenting that provenance and did... Three people in between Goring owning it and Mr.Blynn!..

OK, Most damming they say is,,,The piece was made with a Stags head on it.. But, seems like the official emblem for the DJ is a Skull of a stag.! That the TIME cover is a skull.
What could have happened?. Maybe the design was given to the jeweler by description and it just said 'Stags Head'. Maybe they knew and made something special for Goring. It's something we'll never know why..

But the piece was made with a head with flesh and fur on it and apparently there is no other piece of DJ regalia without a Skull so this piece must be a fake..
Guys,,I didn't post there,,but myself and others have seen Bills research and the photo show a Stags head with flesh/fur on it!! Yes!
See it was easy to see on Bills research but not when you look quickly at the TIME cover.
I offer this as the evidence:
See, one red line shows a nice full head. Not a thinner skull with high cheekbones, thinner nose area of a Skull. I nice full head..

2nd and 3rd most conclusive is:the other line shows a Ear. There is the exact ear on the piece! There is no DJ emblem seen that has the flesh/fur on it. That includes an ear! There are no ears on any DJ emblem! ALSO,, the TIME cover and the piece both show a small pair of 'antlers' on the head blue line. No DJ expert but from doing a bit of looking I see no DJ emblem with this small pair of antlers on it..


So yes,, the piece shown IS the same piece as seen on the TIME cover.. But you guys already knew that. Enjoy!.
Thanks , G.





HGT7b.jpg (39.01 KB, 97 downloads)
HGT2.JPG (72.04 KB, 98 downloads)
HGTa2.jpg (26.49 KB, 95 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 08/24/2019 05:03 PM.
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,922
Likes: 29
M
Offline
M
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,922
Likes: 29
I think Gaspare nailed it- but living in deer hunter country PA (literally, next to where the movie the deer hunter was filmed) I heard it explained that the skull and antlers in fact is even called a European mount in these parts because that is how it is done there or was done as the case may be. I got a great ring for my cousin vinny too speaking of which especially now that I am also a portagee Sicilian like my brother gaspare I?ll see if I can upload a pic- just an old doe tooth ring with eichenlaub and acorns too


Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,225,761 SS Bayonets
1,726,250 Teno Insignia Set
1,088,471 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
# 39821C Imperial Shooting Cutlass
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 11/26/2022 05:26 PM
Tang Marks on SS/SA/NSKK - What are they ?
by Dave - 11/25/2022 11:00 PM
Thanksgiving
by Vern - 11/22/2022 03:04 PM
Original SS Ring ???
by Cotoroanta - 11/21/2022 06:49 PM
HJ with dedication for review
by wes_143 - 11/20/2022 07:32 PM
Latest New Posts
Tang Marks on SS/SA/NSKK - What are they ?
by Vern - 11/26/2022 08:33 PM
Squirrelly for Eickhorns - Potpourri
by JohnZ - 11/26/2022 06:35 PM
# 39821C Imperial Shooting Cutlass
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 11/26/2022 05:26 PM
Miniature lapel awards.
by derjager - 11/26/2022 02:10 AM
First Dagger
by Larry C - 11/26/2022 01:51 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,324
Posts324,566
Members7,253
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
8 members (seany, Vern, C. Wetzel-20609, atis, Valkyrie1968, SpitfireVb, ed773, Texasuberalles), 115 guests, and 120 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5