Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#343940 04/25/2017 11:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,689
Likes: 26
Vern Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,689
Likes: 26
Posted for Andy.................


[Linked Image from germandaggers.com]
Visit us at www.GermanDaggers.com
Contact me at Vern@GermanDaggers.com
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
M
Offline
M
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
hi vern
thanks for putting this rare kreigs eagle m miniture salesman sample divers knife i have been in this great hobby for over fifty years and i seen many minitures luft/army/ but never a kreigs miniture divers knife . this one is well marked maker is w.k.c. on one side then it appears to be a aligator logo on the outher side all brass construction even the handle is knerled all the way around a lot of work just doing this just like the full sized ones steel blade with serigated teeth the blade must have been in sad shape so some one buffed it no biggie at least they saved it from any outher damage it is what it is as shown still an excellant salesman miniture kreigs marked divers knife i would like and appreciate any comments thanks god bless andy militarynut

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,749
Likes: 49
Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,749
Likes: 49
Andy,

I agree. I have never seen a miniature diver's knife.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,028
Offline
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,028
Thanks Vern. Certainly a 10 on the cool scale regardless who made it or when. Even Wittmann makes no mention of such an example. What are the approximate dimensions, and too your personal thoughts on the piece? I'm inclined to think some artisan with sufficient time and a love for detail created this great little (keeper) knife. I'd be curious where he got the (seemingly large) eagle. Really cool Vern. Thanks for sharing, and again your missed at the shows. MAX is 5-7 Oct, be great if you could make it!

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
M
Offline
M
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
hi members
andy yes i was thinking of tom wittmann or houston coates would know both with thier 150 years together seen more ultra rare unusual items like this also wondering if any thing would show up in old w.k.c. catologs we shal see yes a very skilled craftsman made this as i said be for in my experenced opinion i believe its period made the demensions best i can give you the knife in the closed position measures 5 3/4 inches long the blade measures 3 inches long and 1/2 inch wide when i first saw this at a friends i knew i had to have it but ouch the price hurts but i said to my self where can i get another ultra rare w.k.c.kreigs m marked divers knife that wasnt going to happen my friend surfaced this rare bird a few years ago in florida from american ww 2 navy family along with a few outher german naval items last my opinion i still feel its period made andy the eagle has a copper base with silvering on top as should be very detailed eagle wings/brest and the swaz i think i will bring it to this years max show for viewing who knows maybe a kreigs collector will see what i see in it ok members thank you again for your strong opinins about this diamond in the rough god bless all andy militarynut

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
M
Offline
M
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
hi andy
members i have been looking this rare kreigs divers knife over again im sorry when i first looked at the outher side of the blade i thought it was shaped like an aligator sorry i held the blade side ways and its a knights head logo thank god for the magnification i have its not an aligator logo like it should be and the outher side is W.K.C. logo very intresting and in my opinion i feel its period . i dont think we will see another for a while but in this military hobby we never say never untill the fat lady sings and right now she hasnt sung who ever would like to examine it at this years max show is wellcome to look no problem my pleasure have a great day god bless all you addicted military collectors like me andy

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,689
Likes: 26
Vern Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,689
Likes: 26
Maker mark photos.....


[Linked Image from germandaggers.com]
Visit us at www.GermanDaggers.com
Contact me at Vern@GermanDaggers.com
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
M
Offline
M
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
hi members
as i promised before to show the outher side of maker mark one side is W.K.C. and the outher is knights head logo is there any way we might nail a date this was made by see the knights head logo in my opinion it appears possibly 1935/ 1936 or am i all wet would like to hear some opinions thanks god bless andy militarynut

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 151
B
Offline
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 151
I would be interested in hearing how you acquired the knife and if it had any history with it. The markings along with the eagle seem over kill and I would have to wonder if it was Third Reich period.

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
M
Offline
M
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
hi bama
thanks for your questions and opinion as i said before i bought it in florida from a friend there that hunts down militaria for me he bought it from the family of veteran along with a few outher military items i have no doubt on his word i have been dealing with him for many many years and he all ways finds great period items for me i dont buy fakes or copies there is no more history that i can provide to you on this magnificent example of a german miniture kreigs marine divers knife the markings in my opinion is straight on for the W.K.C. model as should be the eagle m below this fantastic miniture silvered eagle also the makers marks W.K.C. thier knights logo im sorry i dont see any over kill here unless your thinking of something else if so please explain i am open all ways to outher opinions god bless andy militarynut

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
M
Offline
M
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
hi members
just noticed on the bcn bayonet forum posted by karl s on 4.21.2017 please look he shows a very early fighting /knife bayonet by w.k.c. they show early kings head and knights head logos isnt this the same knights head logo as i show on my miniture kreigs m marked divers knife i believe so i solved my own case here thanks to member karl s who shows same logo . last as i figured W.K.C. logos were different years where they showed both logos and then single knights head with the W.K.C. if there is any outher opinions and thoughts please by all means thanks god bless all and god bless america andy militarynut

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 151
B
Offline
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 151
Thanks Andy for your reply. Im not very knowledgeable of German Navy ordnance marks but would assume the Wa stands for Hasag, Hugo Schneider AG, Abteilung Lampenfabrik, Leipzig. Maybe some of the forum members could enlighten us as to the numbers 886. Im thinking that your knife might be one of a kind made on board by a navy machinist out of cannon shell of some sort.

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
M
Offline
M
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
hi bama
thanks for your import and intresting opinion i have to agree and disagree on two different wording could have been made by a machinist on board the sub 886 if there was such a numbered sub i dont think it was made out of a cannon shell by a machinest i believe it was made with the W.K.C. company with thier knights logo it would be hard for any machinest to engrave that knights logo same as kens knife and last i do believe its a one of a kind made untill some one comes up with another then there is to that exists thanks you very much for your help god bless andy militarynut

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 151
B
Offline
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 151
Just found this in the reference section of WaffenAmpt codes...............WaA886 - WKC, Solingen 1939

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
M
Offline
M
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
hi bama
well that helps some what w/a 886 W.K.C. learn something new every day this all points so far to originality doubt if fakers would go this far thanks very much have a nice day andy militarynut

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
M
Offline
M
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
hi bama
did you see the one naval miniture divers knife that tom johnson has listed on his site he says his is post war 1,600.00 doesnt even come close to mine and its not maker marked either oh well thank you for your help god bless andy militarynut

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 166
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 166
Likes: 5
Im sorry to say but these are imo postwar mini's, you can buy pretty similar ones as a set for 80 usd.
Some 5 year ago a lot of this stuff suddenly appeared on the Dutch market, all kinds of Knives, mini's and stuff like compasses and binoculars, but all Marine related.

What they had in common: German eagles , with M markings, WaA control stamps and all a bit artifical altered, just like this one, clear to see on the area around the eagle.

The badly executed Knights head, the political eagle facing the wrong side and then another huge red flag: a WaA stamp on a mini, why would a mini have a controle stamp? its not that it has been issued isnt it?

Like Bama said to me its also an overkill of markings.

Here a set you can buy for 80 usd on ebay, other pics are M marked originals, their eagle are facing to the left.


Ger

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
Offline
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
I'm very sorry to have to say that I agree with Ger, and the military style markings on this miniature are completely bogus. In between the WaA253 and WaA519 Waffenamts WKC did use a WaA883, but not the marking posted here. And the Waffenamts were German Army markings - NOT Naval. A mistake that has been made on full size Diver's Knives from at least one U.S. source that I know of that I suspect some buyers of same have in their collections that are 4th Reich fantasies. The markings here having some other characteristics of PW fakes. From my perspective putting this knife in the same general category as the bogus/alleged "SS - RZM" marked letter openers. Best Regards, Fred

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
M
Offline
M
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,206
hi members
i know its hard for you guys to say about my mini kreigs marked divers knife marked wkc that the markings are overkill i hear what you are saying same with fred princes opinion i am still swaying in favor of it possible being made abord ship its made so well also i know the blade has been either plated or chromed over the years also i see the sets that sell on the net but if this mini is bogasly faked dont you think its over board to add the silvered eagle soldered to the scabard in my eyes i see quality when who ever added the eagle swaz but at any rate i appreciate all your opinions i really would like to see a simular one like mine then i will say hey the fat lady just sang if mine is bogas then there has to be more then just mine out there please let us know when you guys find another one same as mine thanks members appreciate your opinions have a nice day andy militarynut


Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,226,287 SS Bayonets
1,726,539 Teno Insignia Set
1,088,709 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
What day is it anyway!!!!
by ed773 - 12/08/2022 12:09 AM
Enamel badge from hitler youth dagger?
by Djp - 12/06/2022 08:48 AM
Neu aus Deutschland
by VEBSCHNEIDWAREN - 12/06/2022 06:44 AM
Gravity knife parts wanted
by Robidoo - 12/05/2022 07:07 PM
Help needed please
by Dudgeon - 12/04/2022 08:53 AM
Latest New Posts
Show Your Variant SS Hangers
by Dave - 12/08/2022 07:23 PM
What day is it anyway!!!!
by ed773 - 12/08/2022 01:04 PM
Verlangerungsmesser
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 12/07/2022 07:42 PM
Neu aus Deutschland
by ed773 - 12/07/2022 12:38 PM
Kyffhuserbund and N.S. Reichskriegerbund badges.
by Don Scowen - 12/07/2022 10:38 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,336
Posts324,685
Members7,266
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
9 members (ed773, Duzig, Nietzsche, JohnZ, SpitfireVb, Billy G., Dave, Jim W, Dutch), 74 guests, and 61 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5