UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum ID SA Dagger Markings on crossguard

I am not to into german daggers, I just come across them from time to time. I came across this today. I was windering if anyone could help ID these crossguard markings. Front guard has SA - 1939 - Miliz, the reverse is a signature. The blade is in rough condition, RZM marked 7/12. Thanks.

Second Picture:

Someone's running your fingerprint through the system even as we speak!!

Here are some better pictures without finger prints.

Another

One more.

last one

Any opinions? Good, bad, just plain ugly??

It came out of the woodwork. I know the dagger is good, I am just not sure about the crossguard inscription, or what is represents. Thanks!

I tend to believe this dagger's inscription to be good. The word Miliz in German represents a militia or reserve Army. This, coupled with the 1939 date and the SA would probably mean a fore runner of the Wehrmannschaft to me for the date.
Translation of the SA name on the reverse could be of great importance. The first letters are Litz, but I can't be sure of the remaining letters. Can anyone translate??
This name and signature I believe I have seen before somewhere. Service record could reveil more.
Ron Weinand

Here is a better pic of the signature. Thanks Ronald for the help.

Pic

I can't translate this signature. Maybe some of our German friends can.

Looks like "Litzmann" to me.

From another forum a member believes that it is SA Gruppenf�hrer Karl Litzmann's signature.

If I got it right, the SA general by that name was the Reichsreiterf�hrer, and F�hrer for horse breeding (etc). Heavily involved with the Reichsreiterf�hrerschule in Berlin-Zehlendorf, (and in 1936 the Olympics) until the equestrian program itself was discontinued in 1941. How that relates to this dagger (if it does) I think is going to require some more work. Is it possible to get a better close up of the SA marked side? FP

I did find a reference to Litzmann serving the Army from 1939-1941.

This is from Google translation from Estonian, not all the words came through.
"From September 1939 the army again took Litzmann. He participaited in one of East Prussia ratsar�gemendi eskadroni�lemana battles in Poland, the Netherlands, Belgium and France."

Metapedia

Thanks for the extra images !!

I don't want to engage in 'dueling resources/references', but what I related came primarily from a German source as partially edited:

"............ Im gleichen Jahr erhielt er die Berufung zum Reichsreiterf�hrer und F�hrer der obersten Beh�rden f�r Pferdezucht und �rennen nach Berlin. Erste Aufgaben waren der Bau der Reichsreiterf�hrerschule in Berlin-Zehlendorf und Vorbereitung der Equipe auf die Olympiade 1936.

1941 wurde die �ffentlich gef�rderte Reitausbildung eingestellt, da diese f�r SA und die Wehrmacht nicht mehr relevant war. Litzmann wurde f�r andere Aufgaben frei und fand Verwendung als Generalkommissar f�r Estland im Protektorat Ostland mit Sitz in Reval."

My point still being is there actually a connection between this late average quality dagger, and the man who was a high ranking SA member? Believing that still more information is needed. Regards, FP

I will be brining this with me to the West Coast Militaria show at the Pomona Fair Grounds May 7-8 if anyone want to look at it in person.

When I was at the Pomona show a few weeks ago I showed this to Steve Wolfe of Wolfe Harden Militaria and he stated that it is 100% correct. He stated that he has seen many examples with the same style etching. He had refered to this as a "Sweetheart Dagger", not quite sure what he meant by that. He did state that there were prabably several Litzmann's and looking through the SA rolls might help narrow the search.