UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories The Honor Ring Forum Schwarz Honor Ring

This HR postwar originally belonged to a member here years ago... His complete story was posted and good photos... Because of attacks, purges etc. the photos are missing,,,or at least I couldn't pull the topic up on a search..

A unique HR to say the least.. Very early pattern , Rare date,,Rare Roman numeral numbers, known SS official.. And,, when first found by our member it had a diamond instead of a skull!

[these are the only 2 I could find. IF anyone else has more or better of these 'Diamond photos please add here, thanks]

like most things everything must come to a end. Our member decided to sell the HR...

It got sold to Craig Gottleib.. Who promptly went ahead and 'restored' it!

It was his and guess he could do what ever he wanted with it.. Me,, I loved it as found!
There is no right or wrong,,

- ,so what would you guys have done with it?

I would have left it as it was with the diamond, even though it was a postwar add. But as you point out, it was the prerogative of the next owner to do what he pleased with it, so I could not really fault him for that. However if the intent were to restore to a more marketable presentation, I would suggest that the man totally misread his customers wants in a piece or was arrogant enough to presume to be able to dictate the market to them. Either way, it was a shame it was changed- but it is still a very amazing ring given to the money man of the nsdap I believe, scwhartz was the first and maybe only party treasurer. Pretty amazing.

Personally I would have restored or let restore it by an experienced jeweler. What really has been done (two times!!) to the ring is just make a caricature out of a piece of history.
Regards,

Mike , Wotan, The treasurer to the NSDAP,,that diamond is kind of appropriate. .

So we have a 2 for leaving as is and 1 for a restoration.. Anyone else??

I would have left it as-is. I mean, HRs with a skull are a dime a dozen!

The ring is currently for sale on Martin's web. The price is crazy. I am curious how much would you offer for such piece of history?





Jan

Dam Jan,,did I see right?!? He wants 39,000 euro?!
That IS a crazy... IF the ring would have been left as is with the diamond maybe it would have good value.. Craig restoring is poorly with a reproduction skull did nothing but hurt its value in my opinion..
I'd bet anything the ring didn't sell for half that much after restoration ,,well, who knows there are some people with more money than know what to do with , [again my opinion!]

I can't see anyone paying anywhere close to 30K euro for it.. Really,, I can't see it breaking over 9 at a highest.. But please let us know if it sells!..

What do you guys think about this price?

For the purpose of reference I am aware of only one other 1933 ring publicly sold during past years - it is Bach - Zelewski ring. It sold with Ratisbon's for ? 26,000 + the fee (is it 17,5%?), so altogether above ? 30,000. The ring was worn out and (period) resized. On the other hand Bach- Zelewski was wicked well known guy compare to Schwarz who was publicly unknown paperpusher, even though I do not want in any way to downplay his office.

I agree, that in my opinion unfortunately Craig harm the ring with restoration, since I would also prefer the diamond over the fake skull. There are two more rings I am aware of. Dietrich ring which is Martin offering for sale for even much higher price and according to Craig also Reck's ring. Anyone aware who is the owner of Reck's ring?

Please see few pictures to compare.



Jan

What is the Reck ring?

Ring of Wilhelm Reck. I did not found much on him. According to Craig:

SS No. 1422 (joined 1928), SS - Standartenf?hrer

His ring is according to Craig most probably only existing 1940s style ring, re-issued, bearing original 1933 Christmas conferral date.

From my point of view any alterations made after the original owner had it is just altering/faking the history of an original artifact. This ring is no longer what the original owner had. I wrote faking, because most probably at some point in the future chain of owners this alteration from diamond back to scull will be lost, and the ring will be "restored" only.
As has been said, it is the up to the current owner what to do with the item, but I too would definately have left it untouched.
The history of this particular ring is now "destroyed" in my mind.

I would have preferred the diamond myself.

that Zelewski HR had some butchery done to it!

Something to think about - They gave out replacement rings no problem. IF your HR was damaged, very worn etc. you put in a request turn yours in,, and you'd get another..

1st. Zelewski would have to put in the request.
2. He would have to get the ring to Gahr..
3. they would do the repair and engraving.
4. Then Gahr deliver him the ring..... -

* Couldn't he just simply requested one, he send in his while they send him a non butchered up one!?

Ladies and gentlemen, please note that Schwarz ring has new home.



Jan

Even as is its a great piece of history!,, glad you got it!