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#342082 04/01/2019 12:47 PM
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Just wondering how common it was to not stamp the serial # on the scabbard? As always your feedback is valued.
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This is a well known repro scabbard, indian copy of S84/98 scabbard,wrong pressing of body, exist only samples with cof44 wout serial, note the ball finial ,very low positioned mouth screw and mouth piece. br.Andy

Last edited by AndyB; 04/02/2019 05:46 PM.
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hi andy b
nice to hear your opinion on this late war 1944 k-98 from paul lakeside trader you probly seen more fake k -98 bayonets scabards made in india then i did in my long fifty five years in military collecting this i do know late war third reich items bayonet etc can be kind of iffii what i mean is the scabard some times dont have the cof code or missing the date also many were one number apart errors etc i have seen many over the years andyb for what ever reason i think this cof bayonet that paul has is right unless you can show us a few outhers then maybe we all can learn sometyhing new just like my miniture kreigsmarine divers knife here on this forum under minitures read up on that one some experenced people here on this forum didnt like it thats thier opinion all we are looking for here is to not call peoples items fake untill some one proves us wrong and instead they call fake with little evidence not in my eyes find me outhers and then that will convince me its fake untill thejn this is my honest opinioni like it and think its right thanks lets here more opinions god bless all andy militarynut

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Yes pls educate me, can I provide any further images?

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Already mentioned some years ago in BCN, as mentioned You should add to side a normal S84/98 scabbard and You will see the differences, the ball finial must be oval shape WaA519 proofed. Mouth piece is wrong shape, size and position.b.r.Andy
there exist any samples in web
https://www.google.com/search?q=cof+44+scabbard&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjo1NOJvbThAhUMuRoKHVWVA4wQ_AUIDigB&biw=743&bih=401&dpr=1.38#imgrc=7PA82hHD5o4mZM:

http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/m...leather-frog/prod_1609.html?review=write

https://picclick.com/WWII-German-K98-bayonet-and-sheath-sheath-marked-352414438935.html

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ww2-german-army-k98-bayonet-scabbard-133021065

Last edited by AndyB; 04/03/2019 05:59 PM.
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hi andy b
im sorry maybe im missing the bouncing ball here i see you mentioned the s84/98 bayonet what does this this bayonet have to do with pauls k-98 cof-44 bayonet scabard did i miss the difference can you educate me and show me th3e same cof=44 scabard thanks very much god bless andy militarynut

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Easy way the all mentioned scabbards in the added links and here in top from Lakesidetrader are reproductions made postwar, they are all wrong construction, cof 44 stamped and no serials on front side, when You compare side by side a normal serialed cof 44 scabbard You will see the differences.

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hi andyb
seen the above links with all kinds of k-98 baynets but i would like to see just the bayonet scabard in question sorry im still confused can you give us a picture of just the cof scabard in question not the rest of at least a dozen of outher bayonet makers please just the cof scabard because that cionfuses me on my honest opinion once you show me where i missed the mark then i will gi ve every body my honest opinion sorry but im an old tough man to convince please bear with me thanks god bless andy militarynut

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I dont have the scabbard, so i could not add it here, You should download one of the pictures of the scabbard here of from previous links(all with repro cof44) and compare it with cof 44 scabbards with normal matching condition or from k98k.free.fr website.b.r.Andy
http://k98.free.fr/cof44-4930f.html
point of difference to real scabbard:
- body is wrong shaped in lower part,
-wrong ball finial sferical, not oval
-no WaA on ball finial
-wrong shaped mouth
-wrong shaped hook
-wrong positioned mouth scabbard
-missing serialing
-cof 44 wrong stamped, date by single digits.

Last edited by AndyB; 04/04/2019 06:07 PM.
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hi andy b
thank you for trying to convince me that lake side traders cof44 bayonet is not right in my opinion i feel in my honest opinion his bayonet is correct for late war a lot of third reich bayonets mauser rifes late war p-38 pistols were not stamped not matched etc the germans had no time in late 1944 to stamp thier items especially what you point out the little waffen stamp on the very tip i seen plenty of 1944 dated bayonet scabards with out the waffen stamp so i guess these were also not good dont forget the germans used slave labor that could care less about waffen stamps i am sorry i am not convinced i do think pauls cof bayonet is correct thanks any way god bless andy militarynut

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Is Your choice what You believe, when You have it in hands You will see the differences, when You dissasemble the mouth piece, You will see there could be not so low position added screw as here is on real cof44 no place for a screw in inner part of mouth , other point that already in mid 1944 were the scabbard bodies welded. b.r.Andy
The overall geometrie of the scabbard is wrong. Other point the blueing on scabbard was done over rusted areas, visible near mouth. Not to compare rough mashining of blade but wout rust.

Last edited by AndyB; 04/05/2019 04:08 PM.
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Thanks Guys, the ball is WaA stamped on ball finial. Anyways I tend to lean toward being conservative. Will sell it as a nice bayo w a post-war scabbard.

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hi paul
this is why i am like i am i call a spade a spade now this goes to show us one thing my rule do not call aany ones item fake untill all the facts are in now thanks to you paul saying the ball has the waffen proof eagle on it this tells me that the fat lady sang in your favor same for me i mistakenly showed pictures of my most cherrished ss salvor made by the famious wagnor n sohn same maker as the luftwaffe pilots silver n alpaca flying cups the wagnor logo on the plate is as plain as your face but on waf forum robert hastler ss cloth expert this i will say called my ss honor plate fake the germans never made such junk that pissed me off big time he might be an expert on ss cloth well im not a jerk in this hobby after fifty five years trying to help people who dont know as much and can use the help hey i miss things here n there but if i make a mistake i appoligize as a man prove me wrong if i ever meet mr. robert hassler here in america it will be a great conversation he will be educated hey guys thanks for the posting god bless next item please last if ever any one here wants to ask my private opinions on third reich items just e mail me at nanny1fl@aol.com god bless all andy militarynut

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If the K98 bayonets are being faked, it's time to move on to collecting something else.

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hi texas
a lot of items are being faked outher then military bear with it and only buy from honest dealers and collectors who guarentee thier third reich items like i do money gladly refunded if not completely satisfied i have no trouble at all i sell guarenteed third reich items only no fakes and no repops thanks have a great night god bless andy militarynut

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Andy, sadly not all folks have an honest attitude as you do and we are now swimming in a sea of fakes and frauds. It's no fun any longer.

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Prior this time exist some few reproductions of S84/98 but all have typical marking on them that are problematic and clearly recognisable, when i remember correctly some 43ddl , Rich.Herder and cof44 parts are reported, but details speaks clear. In compare to SS items or SG42 are combat items on market in reality not really faked, some reproductions are made for reenactors. As many single bayonets exist wout scabbards there was asking about replacement in net, so some small numbers were postwar produced. b.r.Andy
From this is always to look at markings and compare the real pieces, a normal S84/98 delivered to Wehrmacht should be WaA proofed and serialed on both parts. The postwar scabbards cof44 were saled in larger numbers 15 years ago on Ebay.

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hi texas
thanks for your opinion i have seen it all over the years there will all ways be fakes n frauds in everything we do how about car salesmen some will do anything to sell you a car if the price is right then nothing wrong with that as far as militaria be carefull who you deal with make them guarentee the the item in all my years of buying selling the only thing iever was acused of was i was to high priced i all waysc said well my items have condition and conditionis money but unfortunty some people look for cheap prices and all ways get screwed but hey im not thier fatherv take care think about the cituation god bless your pea picking heart andy militarynut

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[ god bless your pea picking heart ]

You gotta' be from the south. my Mam-Maw used to say this from time to time.

Last edited by Texasuberalles; 04/06/2019 07:13 PM.
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hi texas
i copied from tennese earnie for when he ended his great country shows he all ways said gode bless your pea picking heart i love that saying from him last i was born in bklyn new york my dad used to listen onhis philco radio in mid 1950s to roseilee allen wwva west virginia great times as a kid growing up ok then god bless your pea picking heart have a great day andy militarynut

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I'm sorry for my lateness to the discussion - regrettably I have to agree with AndyB. At a show in the not too distant past I saw a reproduction Indian copy of the S. 84/98 on the table of a dealer that because he was not that familiar with TR period bayonets, much less bayonets from a specific maker, that he took in trade. And it was not just a scabbard it was a complete bayonet and scabbard. From a distance it looked good and would have continued to do so until I got close enough. So even though I had thought it would never happen, it has and they are out there. For re-enactors a suitable replacement for a period bayonet, which is what I advised the dealer to do and be more careful in the future. Best Regards, Fred

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hi fred
this bayonet your describing was it eagle waffen amptd on the scabard ball like pauls late 1944 bayonet or was it plain sorry this is what happnes in an opinion situation here we are listning and looking at this bayonet that really looks good but not stamped right as i said before many late war bayonets was not stamped properly please remember the germans lost the war in 1943 so no quality was comeing out of these factorys just what the germans could get out to the troops three weeks ago i picked up two german mauser rifles kreigs models a pair taken from factory late war which was never diped finished in phostate or the once dipped in blueing which was just a wash rinse and out the door i can just hear the uneducated customer saying my rifles has been chromed what a shame i will try and educate him thats not my opinion your opinion oh well sorry got away from the topic but i stick to my opinion unless these bayonets are in my hands for my finale opinion ok pleasure talking god bless andy militarynut

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Offcourse there are matching bayonets still in 1945, exist samples, the here presented bayonet in first thread is correct one, the problematic is the unserialed scabbard. b.r.Andy
It would be nice to see the ball finial stamp detailed, anyway some years ago there was Stamping dies of WaA519 for 120USD avialable on Ebay.

Last edited by AndyB; 04/09/2019 05:27 PM.
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hi andy b
yes this is the key to pauls late war 1944 dated bayonet in question if he can show us a clear picture of the waffen stamp on the ball and if is clear enoigh for me to make a finale opinion as to real period done or faked paul please show us the ball waffen stamp andy i am very aware of most stamps that people use to re stamp third reich items ss ring humped up with these dies you name it the crooks have these dies thanks guys god bles andy militarynut

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Per your request.
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hi paulo
thanks for t5he important part of this late war bayonet you have this is the final clue to weather your bayonet is real period or bogas i believe now that the waffen ampts shown that are on this bayonet is bogas now i would like to appoligize to first andy b for be his keen eyes on the outher pare of this bayonet scabard but untill paul lakeside trader reveiled to us this picture tells the whole story wish paul lakesider showed this to us i would of not given a green lite opinion any one please shows us all of the russian conleusion so that we can give a better opinion ok now every body have a great day god blesws all next case no harm done andy militarynut

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When You compare the WaA519 as is on bayonet, so the bayonet is nice one and only the scabbard is a replacement. b.r.Andy

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I read this thread and it appears photos posted to it would likely clear up some misconceptions. First, S84/98 T3 bayonets left the factories with matching scabbards in all but the most unusual of circumstances. This even carried right up to the end of production, which came quite suddenly for most of the makers (either by being bombed out or overrun by Allied forces). Often when unnumbered scabbards are seen, they came from Behoerden production, which characteristically had unnumbered scabbards, or new armorer replacement parts (often exchanged for damaged or missing ones).

Regarding the reproduction scabbard(s), compared to original ones, they are easy to identify by construction, finish, and often spurious applied markings. Same holds true for the bayonets. It appears the reproduction scabbard has a rather blunt, flat finial. This is very similar to that found on the Spanish M43 and is likely due to one half the ball being part of each side of the scabbard body. When the two halves are folded over and welded along one side, the scabbard is assembled. Original scabbards do not have the finial ball as part of the scabbard, but when folded together and welded, there is a small hole at the bottom of the scabbard onto which a separate finial ball is braised. I also believe the WaA on the ball is applied before assembly. Stamping the ball hard enough with a die to impress the stamp could easily crush or damage the ball.

Pictured are two "cof44" bayonets; one in the "e-bloc" and another in the "u-bloc", so they kind of bracket the bayonet in question. Note the WaA strike on earlier production bayonet and shape of the ball. One can also detect the bronze color just where the finial ball mates with the scabbard. Also note the shape of the ball as well. On the latter bayonet, the finial ball is distinctively different, and bears no WaA. The earlier bayonet bears two WaA519 on the side of the pommel & latter one only one. (See photos on following reply).

cof44 K bloc Finial.JPG (37.58 KB, 46 downloads)
cof44 K bloc LS.JPG (32.88 KB, 47 downloads)
cof44 K bloc RS.JPG (30.89 KB, 47 downloads)
Last edited by FredM; 04/10/2019 10:26 PM.
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Here are the other three photos of the second "cof44" in the "U-bloc":

cof 44 U bloc Finial.JPG (26.95 KB, 48 downloads)
cof 44 U bloc LS.JPG (27.77 KB, 48 downloads)
cof 44 U bloc RS.JPG (28.96 KB, 48 downloads)

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