#38236
01/14/2010 04:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
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OP
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Just back from eastern Europe and Egypt. While in Egypt I looked at a collection of edged weapons presented to Egypt's leaders over the centuries. Here is a dagger I ran into during the visit. The cases were very dimly lit and no flash was possible so pics are not great, but I think you can see it is a rare piece.
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#38237
01/14/2010 04:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 811
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OP
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Crossguard. This dagger was with a group of items presented to King Farouk. If you remember he liked the flashy items. There has been discussion over the years as to if this dagger existed. Looks like an Eickhorn piece to me.
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#38238
01/14/2010 04:43 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
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This is different than any piece that I have seen. The known pieces don't have this kind of detail
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#38239
01/14/2010 04:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
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Vic: Can you tell us exactly where this dagger is on display? Jim
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#38240
01/14/2010 04:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,945
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Joined: Aug 2000
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Looks like a lot of detail work on the crossguard. Houston are you saying you don't like it ?
You know you're over the hill when "Happy Hour" means Nap Time
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#38241
01/14/2010 05:05 PM
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OP
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The dagger is in the weapons museum on the Adbeen Palace Museum Complex. If you are at the Cairo Museum it is about 10 blocks west of the Nile River an easy walk. They have so much stuff.
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#38242
01/14/2010 05:50 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
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I am saying it has a lot of detail-more than any of this type dagger I have seen. It could be a one of a kind. Considering where it is it would seem to be real.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#38243
01/14/2010 08:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
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The crossguard is completely different from any known original. This beauty has extra hand enhancement, the eagle's wings and chest is absolutely superb. I really love it and it is perhaps a "one of a kind" dagger as it was offered to King Farouk.
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#38244
01/14/2010 08:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304
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Joined: Mar 2002
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quote: Originally posted by Pat: The crossguard is completely different from any known original. This beauty has extra hand enhancement, the eagle's wings and chest is absolutely superb. I really love it and it is perhaps a "one of a kind" dagger as it was offered to King Farouk.
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#38245
01/14/2010 08:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,022 Likes: 31
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Due to the characteristic ferrule (you hardly can compare the crossguard ) I would tend to think itīs an ALCOSO dagger. Oh yes, the charakteristic honey colored small swirl grip plates (EICKHORN to my best knowledge never had these) emphasize my impression of ALCOSO. Regards,
wotan, gd.c-b#105
"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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#38246
01/14/2010 08:58 PM
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OP
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I really don't think this piece is a "one of a kind" item due to the fact that it was assembled with a standard nickel insert. While this is with a group of Farouk items. Those named items presented to him personally are of a much higher quality. Here is one example of a named personally presented Farouk piece from Germany. You will recognize the crossguard.
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#38247
01/14/2010 09:08 PM
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OP
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#38248
01/14/2010 09:37 PM
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OP
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#38249
01/14/2010 10:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,130 Likes: 24
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Joined: Mar 2000
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Vic,
Great shots,what a shame we can't find out who's dagger this was.
GDC Gold Badge #290 GDC Silver Badge #310
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#38250
01/15/2010 12:08 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 878
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Joined: Apr 2006
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IN MY OPINION ALL DIPLOMATIC GOLD DAGGERS I HAVE SEEN HAVE NO WHERE NEAR AS MUCH DETAIL AS THIS ITEM.LOOKS LIKE AN EICKHORN TO ME AS YOU WOULD EXPECT THEY GO THE EXTRA MILE,MAYBE THE GUYS AT EICKHORN WERE NOT TOO KEEN ON DIPLOMATS,AND PREFERED THE GOVERNMENT,AS I AM SURE WE ALL DO HEHEHHEHEHEHEEEEEEEE,I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN FREDS OPINION. DIPLOMATT
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#38251
01/15/2010 12:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,022 Likes: 31
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Joined: Jul 2000
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I think somebody has not made his homework . A diplomat (no EICKHORN diplomat is known), the yellow colored small swirl grip plates (no yellow COLORED -not toned due to time- EICKHORN is known), such a ferrule with the small lines, the distinct carving on the front of the pommel (I have to admit that this is hard to recognize in the photographs), the small lipped scabbard mouth piece, the form of the oak wreath and the loops in it, the sleeve form of the scabbard ring holders, the not dramatically upturned crossguard ends, .... no way EICKHORN. Regards,
wotan, gd.c-b#105
"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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#38252
01/15/2010 02:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
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I agree with with Wotan-Alcoso characteristics except for the detailed cross guard.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#38253
01/15/2010 03:11 PM
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Posts: 811
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OP
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Alcoso, was always my favorite and I looked at a bunch, but I only liked a certain run. I hated the various Terradactyl heads that appeared on both Alcoso and Eickhorn crossguards. However, I do not like this crossguard for Alcoso. I wanted to ask one of Honsi Mubrak's guards to put down his Full Auto AK and flip the dagger around, but did't follow through.
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#38254
01/15/2010 07:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,827 Likes: 26
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Joined: Aug 2003
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When I'm in Egypt sometimes it pays to pay a little extra to get what you want. Just maybe it would've worked for you as well. Would've been worth a try anyway.
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#38255
01/15/2010 07:57 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304
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Joined: Mar 2002
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I've been to Egypt several times and you can usually get whatever you want with a bit of backchich. It has worked all the time for me. I've even visited the Valley of the King all alone at night, with a private guide and some backchich.
Backchich simply means a bit of cash or a pack of Malboro cigarettes, they go crazy with it.
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#38256
01/15/2010 08:40 PM
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Posts: 811
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OP
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When in Egypt you cannot avoid backchich, I have learned the country runs on it!!
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#38257
01/15/2010 08:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
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Joined: Jan 2006
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I think you mean "Bakseesh" or grease Even if you stand upon the seat,the crabs in here can jump six feet. Seiler
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#38258
01/15/2010 09:41 PM
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OP
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What ever it is it is a constant pain. Had these cases not been sealed I may have tried it. Actually my mission over there was to look at wootz bladed weapons for a project Hermann and I are researching, and I just stumbled on this piece which is out of my area of interest right now. I am sure one of you guys is resourceful enough to find out the maker on this ultra rare dagger, perhaps even cut a deal with the curator to obtain it outright.
This is the second Gold Diplomatic I have seen over seas. The first one I mentioned in Johnson Vol V page 52. That was was an ALCOSO as I wrote the curator when I got home. The crossguard was exactly as pictured on page 49 except in gold. It looked nothing like this one. That museum was closed on my last trip to London, where is that dagger??
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#38259
01/15/2010 10:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
When I worked in Egypt, some "Baksheesh" made the hard to do very easy, and the impossible doable
Tor-Helge
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#38260
01/16/2010 12:37 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304
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Joined: Mar 2002
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I think we could probably buy that ultra rare Gold Diplomatic dagger in exchange of a case of Johnny Walker whisky. When I was in Egypt, I had a couple of these small Johnny Walker bottles that you see on airplanes and let me tell you, the Egyptians went absolutely wild when seeing one of these being given as a "Bakseesh" gift.
e.jpg (74.91 KB, 293 downloads)
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#38261
01/16/2010 12:45 AM
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Go get it Pat. I'm SURE it would be worth the trip.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#38262
01/16/2010 12:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Haaaaaaaaaa, I may need some Police backup.
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#38263
01/16/2010 01:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,024 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
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Really interesting thanks for sharing Vic
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#38264
01/16/2010 01:22 PM
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OP
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Pat, Police back up will not be a problem they are everywhere, military police, traffic police, municipal police, secret police. This will be great, we will have something different to watch on CNN.
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#38265
01/16/2010 03:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,025 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2002
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With "Bakseesh" being the most important and doable word, and every type of police everywhere, that speaks something about the honesty or corruption of their legal system.
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#38266
01/16/2010 05:26 PM
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Posts: 811
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OP
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I will say the police are not afraid to respond, there was automatic weapons fire in earshot of my downtown hotel last week. The drive by shooting of the Coptic Christians was solved in two days.
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