Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 989
OP Offline
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 989
I was once told that only two manufacturers gilded the swastika
at the factory on 2nd model Luftwaffe daggers; Eichorn and SMF.

Any truth to this??

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,529
Likes: 10
Offline
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,529
Likes: 10
While Eickhorn and SMF are commonly found gilded, I have seen WKC, Alcoso, and Weyersberg 2nd Lufts with gilded swastikas. I think it is more a case of some makers using a light gilding that didn't stand up to wear. Wittmann's book also discusses this effect, referring to traces of gilding found on the swastikas of several makers.


[Linked Image from germandaggers.com]
Visit us at www.GermanDaggers.com
Contact me at Vern@GermanDaggers.com
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,764
Likes: 8
Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,764
Likes: 8
Unfortunately, some of the remaining gilding on the swas darkens and almost looks like dirt, so may have been cleaned off over the years by unknowing owners.

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,004
Likes: 14
Online Content
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,004
Likes: 14
I have a Frideeicus 2nd model with near 100% gilting. The others are devoid of gilt.


GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,072
Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,072
In the early days of the forum a couple guys were posting pics up inside the pommel and showing gilt on some pieces that remained inside the pommel. Who it was and makers I forget.
Bret Van Sant

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 128
Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 128
Hi,
I have two 2nd patterns one by Tiger with Eickhorn fittings and one by WKC and when looking through my high power magnifier I can see some gilt still remaining on the sides of the swastikas but totally worn off the faces.
Regards, Andy.

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,857
Likes: 13
Offline
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,857
Likes: 13
There are obviously several kinds (methods?) how firms did gold plate their 2nd luft pommels. Eg, SMF did use a very bright, thick gold color (can be compared to now available gold laquer) which also does hold the brightness. HOELLER (another firm which did gold plate pommel swaz s) for example did use a more thin gilding which tends to darken (perhaps the kind JohnZ did describe). EICKHORN did use gilding which does look kind of orange. The case is even more complicated because the firms which did gold plate 2nd luft pommels did not plate all of their 2nd lufts.
But concerning the question of Texasuberalles, as Vern did already state and others did add, there are more firms with gilded pommel swaz s than the two mentioned in the first post.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10
L
Offline
L
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10
Hello, is it possible to tell if the gold has been applied post war, perhaps with gold leaf.

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,857
Likes: 13
Offline
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,857
Likes: 13
Originally Posted by Lamby
Hello, is it possible to tell if the gold has been applied post war, perhaps with gold leaf.

Hello, I have heard that acetone does dissolve falsely applied gold color (laquer). So I think it also would dissolve the glue of gold leaf?
But the gilding of the swaz was not done with real gold (gold leaf; which is recognizable by an experienced person) at the period so this alone would be a red flag.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
Offline
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
Gold leaf is the metal itself made into very, very, very, thin foil that should be impervious to ordinary solvents. Whereas the ?gilting? on the pommels seems to have some variables by maker, and how they approached the different base metals used for the fittings. A later period German Army Officer?s saber I had gave me a window into the past because you could see copper plating contrasted with the zinc base metal and the gold over the copper where the different layers of the plating had worn off. The problem for the German dagger makers being that they wanted the gold to contrast with the bulk of the rest of the finish that necessitated a multistep process. Some Luftwaffe swords for example having a so-called ?gilt? Swastika that is actually color anodized aluminum - and my point really being that I look at things on a case by case basis in trying to determine what and how something was done to get the desired result. Best Regards, Fred

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10
L
Offline
L
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10
Thank you very much Wotan and Fred for answering my question.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,211,539 SS Bayonets
1,707,951 Teno Insignia Set
1,074,958 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
RLB P.Wayersberg Dagger, determining originality
by norg - 01/19/2022 05:56 PM
REVISED and UPDATED
by Von Ryan - 01/19/2022 12:25 AM
Tom Wittmann's down in the cellar
by ed773 - 01/17/2022 09:41 PM
1st Pattern RLB
by JRM37007 - 01/16/2022 05:22 PM
BROOCH RUSSIAN ?
by benten - 01/15/2022 08:19 AM
Latest New Posts
RLB P.Wayersberg Dagger, determining originality
by Billy G. - 01/20/2022 07:17 PM
Organizational Pins/Badges. A new beginning.
by Soul72 - 01/20/2022 07:10 PM
SA Moto variant
by Dave - 01/19/2022 07:39 PM
BROOCH RUSSIAN ?
by Mike (aka Byzanti) - 01/19/2022 12:43 PM
REVISED and UPDATED
by Dave - 01/19/2022 03:12 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,013
Posts321,348
Members7,093
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
11 members (Browning1900, Billy G., Soul72, norg, Miroslav, Sarcasmos, ed773, JR, atis, Dave, Mat J), 22 guests, and 80 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5