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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 128
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 128
Hi, I purchased this Kriegsmarine dagger by WKC yesterday at a local arms and Militaria fair it was a toss up between this dagger and a nice early NSKK by Hugo Rader Solingen ( a 7 on the McSarr list) I was going to go for the NSKK but after scrutinizing it closely the scabbard throat screws were off set and not fully inserted, the slots looked a bit chewed up and the holes in the fitting for the screws were bulging out a bit add to this the pommel nut was also a bit chewed as though a over sized spanner had slipped around it the blade was ok but a little pitted from rust and cleaned, So putting what I've learnt here into practice I presumed it had most likely been messed with by someone who did not know what they were doing and so passed on it and went for this WKC Navy with hammered scabbard.
I have checked it out online and it all looks right for WKC and I think it may have the early style eagle pommel, I made a decision after much careful consideration to take it down as I had noticed that under the red felt blade washer there is a number 6 or 9 stamped into the plate so my curiosity was aroused as to if there were any other internal marks present on this piece. I know it's not advised to disassemble daggers but I do a lot of delicate work with models and have restored some watches etc. in the past so I felt confident and would never force anything that just does not want to move etc. So anyway the white grip is wood cored and was a very tight fit on the blade tang but it came away with patience and gentle persuasion I made sure to make a small pencil mark to the bottom of the grip so I was sure to place it back exactly the same way around that it came off I then noticed that the Tang also has the same number stamped into it, I then slid the cross guard off and found this also has the same number stamped underneath it. What are the numbers ? I am guessing they were for assembly so parts were not mixed up but may be wrong of course. I love the detail to the pommel eagle and nice little oak leaf enhancements to the scabbard band eyelets the more I look at this dagger the more I like it but have had bad luck with Kriegsmarine daggers in the past so am braced for disappointment if I've made another bad decision? That said please look at the attached photos and add your comments/opinions about this dagger. Lastly I have a very nice gold toned knot with cats anus type filling and am thinking of putting it on this dagger, What would you guys do add it or leave it without? Apologies if I have gone on a bit too long with my text and hope the pics are ok funny thing is I can get fairly good close ups but never a good pic of the entire dagger or of the blade etching, just can't get the light right anyway the blade is better than the pics show.

2005-08-11 20.58.25.jpg (129.54 KB, 245 downloads)
2005-08-11 20.38.25.jpg (133.71 KB, 244 downloads)
2005-08-11 20.39.12.jpg (93.2 KB, 244 downloads)
2005-08-11 20.00.24.jpg (103.54 KB, 244 downloads)
2005-08-11 20.17.50.jpg (130.5 KB, 246 downloads)
Last edited by AndyBurton; 06/04/2018 02:23 PM. Reason: Missing text.
Joined: Aug 2017
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Posts: 128
More pics.

2005-08-11 20.19.23.jpg (123.43 KB, 244 downloads)
2005-08-11 20.21.24.jpg (127.3 KB, 242 downloads)
2005-08-11 20.04.20.jpg (120.16 KB, 242 downloads)
2005-08-11 20.21.24.jpg (127.3 KB, 244 downloads)
2005-08-11 20.12.12.jpg (52.2 KB, 243 downloads)
Joined: Aug 2017
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Posts: 128
Last pics.

2005-08-11 20.15.47.jpg (51 KB, 243 downloads)
2005-08-11 20.23.22.jpg (128.52 KB, 242 downloads)
Joined: May 2003
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Very nice piece Andy, nice to see all matching numbers but personally i would not have taken it apart
you made the right choice by passing on the nskk if the blade had been messed with.


Regards Sean
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Hello AndyBurton, I too would not have taken it apart. These numbers obviously are the assambly numbers of this dagger. The daggers needed a lot of handwork (eg. fitting the blade into the grip) and when they did a row (there are series of photographs which do show this) of eaqual daggers they did mark the certain daggers with numbers so they would not interchange parts when working simultaneously on the row of daggers.
The dagger looks to me like an early one, so the cellon portepee would not be first choice for attaching. Such a dagger would need an early, patinated silver portepee. Naturally this early portepee "could have been worn down" and so the wearer "could have chosen" therefore to buy and attach a late cellon portepee.
Navies with hammered scabbard are always looked for by collectors. I wearing photographs such hammered scabbard daggers are VERY hard to find.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Joined: Feb 2011
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Hello Andy,
the pommel is an early eagle by WKC indeed. Like Wotan already said, I would also looking for a silver portepee for this dagger.
Best,
Oleg.


Greater love has no one than this: to lay down his life for his friends.

John, 15:13

www.kriegsmarinedolch.de
Joined: Aug 2017
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Posts: 128
Hi,
Yes I thought disassembling would raise a few eyebrows but I am extremely careful and everything has gone back exactly as it was I did not clean a thing on it just a bit of Renwax on the blade, the fit of the parts is excellent and I could see where little adjustments had been made when it was put together. I have however learnt something else by doing this eg: the stamped numbers to the parts, the craftsmanship involved in making these early daggers and also gained total satisfaction that all the parts are matching and correct, I now have a nice Kriegsmarine in my growing collection and have wanted one for some time now. Needless to say I would not disassemble if I came across such numbers again as I now know what they are.
Thank you so very much for your replies and information I am learning so much since joining this community. By the way I will look for a nice aged silver portepee for it now but would like to know if all Kriegsmarine knots should have the puckered in fill or would a standard Army type with the woven tresse type in fill be correct as well?
Many thanks, Andy.

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Andy
Very nice Navy. Super condition.
I believe the Army knot will be short and would not let you tie a correct Navy weave.
Ed

Joined: Aug 2017
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Hi Ed, Thanks for your comments I believe you are correct about the length issue I have been reading and searching the net and just come to that conclusion, one other thing is I think Wotan and Oleg are saying to use a silver knot meaning a aluminium knot would not be right for this dagger either am I correct?
Andy.
Originally Posted by ed773
Andy
Very nice Navy. Super condition.
I believe the Army knot will be short and would not let you tie a correct Navy weave.
Ed

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Andy
I also believe that is correct.
Meda Military has several on its site, and I am sure they are correct for the dagger. JR could tell you the one that is correct for your dagger era.
Good luck
Ed

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Have fun trying the knot! It?s tricky...!

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Leave it alone.
Any portepee you put on it will not look period tied as they take a 'set'.
Leave it be.

Joined: Aug 2017
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Hi Texas,
I am thinking that is probably the best advice and I think I may well leave it without one, I did put the cellon gold toned knot shown in the pics on it before Wotan and Olegs reply's and then took it off and as you say no matter how snug I tried to fix it, it did look loose compared to the ones you see on daggers that have been there forever and they also have all that lovely dust and crap that settles in all the creases and there's no way I can get that look. I kind of like the fact that one can see all the detail of the pommel and crossguard without a knot covering it up so I'm going to leave it be. Thanks for your input.
Oh and Doug I have tied this knot a few times over the years and find it relatively easy now but if you've never tied one before, well yes they can be a bitch !
Many thanks to all of you, Regards, Andy.
Originally Posted by Texasuberalles
Leave it alone.
Any portepee you put on it will not look period tied as they take a 'set'.
Leave it be.

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Just my 2cents.
If you just WANT a portapee on your dagger, you have to take a little time to get the LOOK. A navy is the hardest to get right.
If you get the right knot, and wet it a little to get her to streatch, she will shrink on drying to the look you are trying to get.
Some knots come with the look built in. There are several on the web now for navys. A little moisture, and you have it.
She looks super now. but if you just have to have a knot, try it. Or leave it.
Ed

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Hi,
Thanks Ed, I am going to leave it be for now but if I come across a nice one of the correct type with some age to it taken off a dagger still in it's fitted shape and I have seen such knots occasionally for sale then I would consider fitting it, but just leaving it be how I found it is a good choice I reckon. Thanks for the fitting tips though that's another useful thing I've learned from this forum.
Cheers, Andy.

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Hello AndyBurton, as there has been a group of navy members (especially officer cadets) who have been permitted to wear such a dagger but WITHOUT portepee (I do have several of such "wearing" pics) in my opinion it is not absolutely necessary to put a portepee on this nice dagger.
As it is a quite early dagger a true "silvered" Portepee (true silvered threads which tarnish to a deep brownblack color) would be right and would give a rig with this traces of time the right touch but also one with the aluminium thread would be ok but will kind of contrast with this dagger.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.

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