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#338294 05/13/2018 06:32 PM
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Hi Guys,
Von Ryan here. If you haven't been to my site lately you might like to take a look at a "One of a Kind" double-etched dress bayonet under the "Bayonets" header. It has a trademark of the Herbert Fleschenberg (distributing company) on the ricasso. the absolute beauty of this example cannot be understated. The highly decorative obverse and reverse etches are the deepest I have ever seen in 40 years of collecting. On the obverse is the name Herbert Fleschenberg deeply etched inside a "blued" cartouche panel. More information on this great example is included in the web site description. I would appreciate any comments.

Von Ryan

Von Ryan #338297 05/13/2018 10:34 PM
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Von Ryan
Yes a super bayonet for sure. I saw the same bayonet for sale on Meda Militaria a while back, and Tom J had one also. Never got to the bottom of the story, a dealer sample, a presentation piece, not sure. But, very very nice, and there are others aroun d for sure.
Ed

ed773 #338306 05/14/2018 01:19 PM
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Ed and Wayne:

I saw this bayo at the SOS in February and it is a very impressive piece for sure. Not a textbook item, but everything fit together and it displayed better than the pictures show.

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
JohnZ #338307 05/14/2018 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnZ
Ed and Wayne:

I saw this bayo at the SOS in February and it is a very impressive piece for sure. Not a textbook item, but everything fit together and it displayed better than the pictures show.

John


These are not my specialty, but if there are multiples of the same bayonet it would seem to me to be a sample of some kind with a "Your name here" sort of area etched onto the blade in addition to the ricasso marking (?). Possibly one that was sold to someone because the blued scabbard has the typical wear markings like those seen for example on service bayonets from different frogs. Of course that's not in hand and maybe it's just the imaging? Best Regards, Fred

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Fred
The ones I have seen all look the same. Blue panel for name, they were Her Flesh, so sample I assume also. Wonder if there are any around with other names in the panel. If none were ever ordered or produced, then the samples are sure rare. Waynes looks the same as JRs and Tom Js, So there are a least two, Ed

ed773 #338319 05/14/2018 10:39 PM
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Von Ryan here.
Are we all so sure we're not referring to the SAME etched dress bayonet???

Von Ryan #338323 05/15/2018 01:46 AM
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Wayne
I'm sure a call to JR Meda and Tom J would end the problem.
They were on both sites just about the same time.
Tom's was marked sold and JRs was still on for sale.
They could have been the same bayonet, as they were exact doubles, but that seems odd in itself.
This was not that long ago, not a year I do not think.
Ed
Just went to Tom J website. The bayonet is still on his site marked sold. 29474

Last edited by ed773; 05/15/2018 02:00 AM.
ed773 #338329 05/15/2018 11:57 AM
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Wayne
Yes, it looks, to me anyway, that the one you have and the one Tom J has are the same bayonet. Tom mentions the dent on the scabbard just below the frog.
His item number 29474, still on his site, marked sold.
If I remember right, The one Meda had was just a little nicer,
If a sample piece for ordering, I can see more than one.
If a presentation piece to Herbert, from the firm, then seems like there should be only one.

John
Do you remember who had the one you saw at the SOS?

Ed

ed773 #338331 05/15/2018 02:05 PM
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Ed:

I saw this at Wayne`s table at the show. I never did see the etched bayo on JR`s site. I tend to be in the presentation piece camp on this one, ie. it should be a unique one of a kind piece.

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
JohnZ #338333 05/15/2018 02:26 PM
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If it was on Waynes table, then that really narrows it down. The one on Johnsons site really seems to be the one Wayne has now.
I'll try to get with JR to see if he can shed some light.
Presentation looking for sure, Retirement or years of service, or just a gift from the firm. I know nothing on the relation between Fleschenberg and the makers Wayne mentions.
If it was a sample, seems there would be more around with other names on them.
Total beauty at any finding.
Ed

ed773 #338334 05/15/2018 05:06 PM
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ED and Others
To my knowledge there are NO OTHER examples of this etched dress bayonet. IF another exists PLEASE put a picture of it either on this form OR send it to me at VonRyansExpress.com. This piece was SOLD on Johnson's site over a year ago...since then others have owned or knew of it's existence, BUT this is the ONLY one in existence. I got it from a collector over in England who obviously did not know it's real intention or value. It is a shame that others could not put two and two together and come out with the correct answer even those who have spent decades in this hobby. This example does NOT speak of retirement or a Service relationship or a Gift to someone at the Fleishenberg firm other than the OWNER Herbert Flieschenberg.
Wayne

ed773 #338336 05/15/2018 06:05 PM
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We sold this bayonet to flipper Joe Polsinelli for $850.00 in January. It is the same exact bayonet that Wayne now shows, and was previously sold by Tom Johnson.

Last edited by JR; 05/15/2018 06:10 PM.
Von Ryan #338337 05/15/2018 06:17 PM
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Flipper had it pre-sold to Wayne prior to the SOS, using the photos off of our website.

Last edited by JR; 05/15/2018 06:19 PM.
Von Ryan #338342 05/15/2018 10:45 PM
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Wayne
You do know I hope that I did not mean you were wrong about the bayonet. All interested in 3rd rich bayonets know you are the person to go to for etch.
It was just something to see this bayo as rare as it is pop up 3 times in MY searches as of late.
With little looking I did find that yours and Toms were the same, JRs input put all the rest to rest.
You have the only one known to exist.
Getting to the interest of the bayonet, do you know anything about Herbert Fleschenberg? If not a gift or retirement or service related, just a guy??
Such a unique bayonet, would really like to know the rest of the story.
Sorry if I upset anyone.
Ed

ed773 #338344 05/16/2018 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ed773
Wayne
You do know I hope that I did not mean you were wrong about the bayonet. All interested in 3rd rich bayonets know you are the person to go to for etch.
It was just something to see this bayo as rare as it is pop up 3 times in MY searches as of late.
With little looking I did find that yours and Toms were the same, JRs input put all the rest to rest.
You have the only one known to exist.
Getting to the interest of the bayonet, do you know anything about Herbert Fleschenberg? If not a gift or retirement or service related, just a guy??
Such a unique bayonet, would really like to know the rest of the story.
Sorry if I upset anyone.
Ed

I'm wondering about it also. It looks to me like it has a German Police knot on it. Does that help narrow down the search? Best Regards, Fred

Von Ryan #338350 05/16/2018 05:27 PM
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The Story:
Since Fleischenberg Distributors were a known (and probably well known) military shop within Solingen - See the trademarks book, it makes PERFECT sense to me that Herbert Fleschenberg the OWNER, would Special Order this custom example as an example to entice military men to buy Remembrance Etched Dress Bayonets from his shop. It's really as simple as that. In my opinion, the Special Order went to either
F.W.Holler or Robert Klaas (I'm leaning further toward Robert Klaas). The ABSOLUTE beauty of the extremely DEEP etching makes this particular bayonet the finest example I have ever seen (and I've seen a few). Once the Fleschenberg Store is found the balance of the pieces fit together and the overall value I have on it is still probably $1,300.00 below what it should be.
Von Ryan

Von Ryan #338351 05/16/2018 05:54 PM
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Post a picture, Please

Thanks

Dave

Von Ryan #338354 05/16/2018 06:54 PM
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Wayne
Thank you for the info. I have tried to do a little looking into Fleschenberg, but did not get to far.
I only have the knowledge of a small time collector, not a expert, so seeing a bayonet of this quality for sale three times in one year sure set my mind wondering.
It DID finally end up at home where it should be.
Thanks again
Ed

ed773 #338381 05/17/2018 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ed773
Wayne
Thank you for the info. I have tried to do a little looking into Fleschenberg, but did not get to far.
I only have the knowledge of a small time collector, not a expert, so seeing a bayonet of this quality for sale three times in one year sure set my mind wondering.
It DID finally end up at home where it should be.
Thanks again
Ed

Ed you are not alone, I hit a dead end using the multiple resources that I have. So there must be another book out there that helps in expanding our knowledge. Best Regards, Fred

Dave #338384 05/17/2018 07:37 PM
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Dave,
I tried but for some reason the pictures won't post.
VR

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Fred
Yes, I'm sure there are other books out there. I do not know of one to research maker factories.
Wayne has been doing this, and almost only this for a long time, one of the go to books is his. When you know where to go and how to get there, it is a little easier.
Ed

ed773 #338391 05/18/2018 04:56 AM
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Buy Anthony Carter's GERMAN KNIFE AND SWORD MAKERS The name Fleischenberg is missing from Anthony's book. Great book but about 95%

Last edited by DAMAST; 05/18/2018 04:59 AM.
Von Ryan #338398 05/18/2018 01:50 PM
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That name is also missing from my edition (7th) of Fisher.


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
JohnZ #338401 05/18/2018 03:20 PM
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The first place I looked was in the late Anthony Carter's book (including the newest version) and then Fisher. I also have a couple of other sources that I had acquired over the years. I was in correspondence with Anthony right up until his very untimely passing and know to a certainty that some relatively minor verifiable additions did not make it into his book. Which is not a criticism because I'm very glad that John Walters, Henning Ritter, and others stepped forward to finish the book and put it into the hands of collectors. Anthony made a number of trips to Solingen to talk to people and gather information, with my best guess at the moment being that Fleschenberg was just not large enough to get noticed given all of the research and contributor's examples that went writing the references cited. Best Regards, Fred

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Von Ryan here:
Ok, guy's you have me....Herbert Fleischenberg is NOT listed in the newer edition of Anthony's Carter's Book (a GREAT BOOK to be sure). The REASON Fleischenberg is NOT listed is because the store was NOT a "GERMAN KNIFE and SWORD MAKER" they did not MAKE anything, they were a DISTRIBUTOR. If you must have PROOF please visit Terry L. Kissinger's "German WW II Dress Bayonet Guide & Record Book. Put an emphasis on Bayonet please. Go to page 17, do I have to read it for you. The Fleischenberg business was JUST a STORE front. Enjoy the etched bayonet for what it is.
VR

Von Ryan #338406 05/18/2018 07:22 PM
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I'm appreciative of the clarification of Fleschenberg as just a store front, it coincides both with German Army regulations and Anthony Carter's book. The private purchase dress bayonets a part of the private purchase uniforms, and Carter including the listing of some of the retailers who sold both uniforms as well as blade type sidearms. Best Regards, Fred

Last edited by Fred Prinz - FP; 05/18/2018 07:23 PM. Reason: typos

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