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#333887 12/09/2017 10:23 PM
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I'm curious what other collectors think abut the "smiling skull" chained SS dagger Tom Witmann has listed on his site . I have not seen this variation listed in any reference book or web site out there. Is this a known pattern? Is this one of those daggers that will always have questions surrounding it? I have searched the forums and not found any discussion about it. I was told by a well known collector that the dagger is "very questionable" but nobody will dare say so because of who is selling it. I'm not trying to step on anybody's ego, I just thought it would make an interesting discussion.

The first thing I thought when the dagger was brought to my attention was that the chain looked like a "one off", perhaps period made by a jeweler?











Last edited by StarvinMarvin; 12/09/2017 10:28 PM.
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I dont like it

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Mmmmmm I have my opinion... but I'm too inexperienced to share.

Anxious to read yours !

(Do you think the stamped runes in last pic are correct?

Regards,

Marc

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Good point MarcGB, When the Kulturzeichen on the "smiling Skull" (first photo) is compared with another from Tom's site the difference seems evident.

"Smiling skull"







Last edited by StarvinMarvin; 12/09/2017 11:42 PM.
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Another example from Tom's site. Notice the fine detail to the ruins that is lacking in the "smiling Skull" chain. What would cause the crude looking stamp in the smiling skull? Could a double strike cause the lines in the stamp to look crooked??


Last edited by StarvinMarvin; 12/09/2017 11:56 PM.
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Also on the "smiling skull" chain, the snap clip has a very deep line or groove that runs directly behind the clover leaf. I cant seem to find another examples with this line. If the chain is in fact period correct why would the producer not have used a standard and commonly available snap clip?


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What most SS dagger collectors know is that there were more than one producer OR assembler of these daggers..so details varied by the producer of those who were sub contracted to produce the fittings.

The tabs appear in the photos to be of earlier construction material..unlike the later plated type to be expected on Late chained examples. The roughly stamped Kulturzeichen is a mystery to me and not one expected to see on a later Chain.

Much could of taken place we do not know of during the late period ..and its the unknown that challenges us to research further.

Regards Larry


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Larry or anyone else, have you ever encountered a snap clip with a pronounced horizontal line/groove running under the clover leaf like on this dagger?

Also I cant get my mind around the strange pebbling on the background of the links or what seems to me as very sharp square holes in the individual links.

Am I mistaken or is this chain made of early material like the type A or B1 but has the straight connectors to the clover leaf like the type C chain?

Im confused...

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Another unique feature of this chain is that the pebbling on each link seems to run continuously (through the hole) As if the pebbling was applied before the links were stamped out. I could be wrong and maybe I need glasses smile

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Marv,

This seems more like an agenda or another attack rather than a quest for knowledge. You say you are confused, and that you might need glasses.

Dave
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Dave,

"Another attack"?? Who did I attack the first time? I admit that I referred to Ed as Cesar in a previous thread but that's hardly an "attack". I was only kidding and apologized both publicly and privately. You killed my post about restoration (a worthy topic I thought) and now you make a disparaging comment about me. Seriously Dave, If I have done something to offend you, that was never my intention and I apologize.

You have more knowledge than most in this hobby, We would all be very interested to hear your take on the dagger that started this thread. If this dagger is a yet unknown chain configuration it would seem worthy of discussion.

The dagger in question has many interesting and unusual features. If it is a "one off" and no other example like it has ever been shown to exist what can it really be compared to? and if it cant be compared to anything how can a "good or bad" call really be made?

Just to put Dave's rightfully suspicious mind at ease, I'll say publicly that I have no "agenda" against Tom W. I very much appreciate his enormous contribution to this hobby. I visit his site regularly to look at his many fantastic items and especially his daggers. I watch his Youtube videos and have a signed copy of his SS book.

Last edited by StarvinMarvin; 12/10/2017 04:33 AM.
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I see everything correct on this chain but the Kulturzeichen which looks awful... and that horizontal line.

Also the DRGM inscription is visible through the upper hole of the knot which is correct in mid/late chains.

Kind regards

Marc


Last edited by MarcGB; 12/10/2017 09:54 AM.
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Marv Dave and All
Hope this does not shut down this topic.
The more (we) collectors dissect these German war items, the more we discover, both good and bad.
I do not believe anyone means to attack anyone, but to just get to the bottom of the topic at hand.
There are more variations of these items than we know about.
The chained SS dagger is one of these.
JR showed me about 12 different one day,
Quite a sight, and thanks again JR.
The grove in the clip is different, but could be period.
I never saw the scabbard in the repaint topic, still would like.
Hope we all keep getting along.
Ed


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