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#333381 11/22/2017 09:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
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Hi,
This Army Scabbard I think from all the stuff I've read and looked at about reproductions is a repro I would like expert opinions if possible as my knowledge and experience is limited. I am also perhaps a bit reluctant to know as this scabbard came with a Dagger with a supposed rare maker mark that I bought from a reputable dealer here in the UK that some on this forum know of too. I am unsure of what course of action I should take if my thinking about this scabbard is correct, I also don't want to reveal the name of the dealer as this can cause much trouble and I have had many good pieces from same dealer.
I have very carefully stripped the scabbard down for a thorough analysis though I feel there are some very obvious red flags which were not visible on the sellers website.
Depending on what opinions arise or what thoughts are as to what to do next I may post photos of the Dagger as well, my opinion is that it may be parts made up?
Anyway here is the scabbard:

[img:right][/img] [img:left][/img] [img:right][/img] [img:left][/img] [img:right][/img] [img:left][/img] [img:right][/img] [img:left][/img]

Many thanks, Andy.

Forgot to add that the suspension rings and bands are non magnetic, bands may be brass as there is a gold hue to them where plating has worn not obvious in theses pics. The scabbard body, throat and runners are magnetic.

Last edited by AndyBurton; 11/22/2017 09:24 PM.
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What would concern me is the terrible fit between the two scabbard bands and the lack of the 'rings' on the scabbard bands being soldered shut.

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Junk. look at the swirly pebbling on the scabbard, dead giveaway

and the points that Texasuberalls makes


Regards Sean
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The Spanish & Chinese fakes have cast zinc scabbards, so the first test usually is to check if it's magnetic.

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Thanks for the posts everyone. Redbaron: the scabbard body throat and runners are magnetic the bands and rings are not. I have been in touch with the dealer I purchased the dagger from and though it's many months since I purchased it and way past his return policy terms he has stated that if I am not happy with it he is happy to give me a full refund which is what I am going to do, and I think that's fair.
He says he still believes the dagger and scabbard to be absolutely original and that it is a late war type when quality and quality control were slack and as I am getting a full refund I'm not arguing his opinion. So all in all a good result thanks to posting here which then prompted me to contact the seller with my concerns. I had my own doubts about the scabbard and certain parts of the actual dagger and still do so I would never have been happy with it in my collection. This has certainly taught me a thing or two.
Cheers, Andy.

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Postwar, kudos to Andy for bringing this example to our attention with some excellent photos, smile I'm happy to see that the dealer is going to do the right thing with a full refund. Best Regards, Fred

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Dear gentlemen, I personally would not be too fast with some of the arguments I have read here.
In general
First of all, the socalled -swirl pattern- (the certain pebbling in the scabbard segments), to my best knowledge and experience, is NOT a -dead giveaway-. The exact swirl patter of the fakes does appear on late war pattern generic armies. Or better the other way round, the fakers did use this late in the war pattern widely and did descredit the original ones.
Second, I personally have not seen this certain kind of coated springs with a fake scabbard (but never say never).
Third, scabbard bands especially on late war scabbards did/do not fit properly, were not fixed properly and therefore became/become often loose (and lost).

This all said, from the pics here, I am also no fan of the scabbard shown. Especially the high glance of the scabbard tip and the small side segments of the scabbard are for me spurious. Normally these late scabbards do have a very fine and dull crossgrain finish.

The knowledge (photographs) of the full dagger and especially it s mm would have been an extra treat.

Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Ok here are the photos of the dagger in question, it is stripped down I can't seem to get good photos of the whole thing assembled on my old Samsung tablet. It's the blade bothers me most as it has a kind of ripple effect to the finish as though maybe it has been re plated over the original finish it doesn't show as well in the photos but at certain angles with the light it is very prominent, it kind of looks a bit like chrome. Also the Maker mark looks soft (again like it has been over plated?)and slightly off centre, there is a common casting mark on the tang and generally the blade looks ok dimensionally. The crossguard looks good to me a generic A I believe, the pommel also seems ok, the ferulle looks well detailed but is very shiny and new looking? the grip shows age cracks and I think is ok and maybe a Galilith type. So mainly its the blade finish, the MM, the ferrule and the scabbard details already mentioned that make me uneasy with this dagger. The over all fit is a little loose and the blade washer looks like it's meant for a much wider type of blade not an army and doesn't actually cushion the blade at all and has certainly been added later.
Anyway I look forward to some good knowledgeable opinions etc.
[img:left][/img] [img:left][/img] [img:left][/img] [img:right][/img] [img:left][/img] [img:right][/img]
[img:left][/img] [img:right][/img] Rest to follow shortly.

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And the crossguard and blade.
[img:left][/img] [img:right][/img] [img:left][/img] [img:right][/img] [img:left][/img] [img:right][/img] [img:left][/img] [img:right][/img]
And that's the lot folks.
Cheers, Andy.

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wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,999
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wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,999
Likes: 28
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Sorry i have tried at least six or seven times in varations but the post keeps to disappear.

I will try a pm.

regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 128
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I have tried to pm you back but my text just disappears! WIERD? what's going on here?

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Originally Posted By: AndyBurton
I have tried to pm you back but my text just disappears! WIERD? what's going on here?


it is a technical problem in connection with syntax and known since august exclamation point
but not fixed until now


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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IMO dagger its is original with standard generic type A fittings.
But unfortunately it has been heavily damaged by cleaning.

Schlange

http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/album

http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=333472#Post333472

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Agree with Schlange.. looks like a viable set up fittings wise for a Buchel Heer.. cleaned/polished pretty hard though! Best, Kevin.


It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
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Hi All,
Thanks for the replies, this has gone from junk repro scabbard to ok late scabbard then dagger viable original late type but over polished. I think the heavy polishing was done to get rid of corrosion and is probably why it has a rippled pitted look though very shiny like plate. The dagger is back with the seller now and I got my refund which has gone as down payment on a nice WKC Army which I will post pics of when I finally get it. This certainly got some interesting responses and I tend to agree that it probably is a genuine ok late Buchel cleaned to death with a badly cracked Galilith grip. It was fairly cheap though so no problem there.
I have had a email from the seller who has re examined it and says it came from one of the top dealers in the USA and he swears after getting it back that it is all 100% original rare maker that had the grip been perfect would have been substantially more expensive. Anyway it's all done and dusted now and I will be far happier with the WKC which looks pretty typical WKC.
All good stuff here I am learning more and more since joining this community.
Cheers, Andy.

PS: Forgot to add that due to the disappearing post problem I received some excellent information re this dagger from WOTAN via email, many thanks to him for his efforts to get some detailed and informative info to me.

Last edited by AndyBurton; 12/01/2017 03:25 AM.

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