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#37327 01/28/2010 01:53 AM
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Gents, a fellow asked me the other day, what has happened to the prices in the 'sale' forum.

For him, what used to be a good place to get 'collector to collector' prices has turned into an area where people are consistently asking dealer and dealer plus prices for their items.

Here is the question.Would you like to see more realistic prices reflected in the items on the forum?

How do you think this can happen?

Will we ever see collector to collector prices again in this hobby? Or is everyone out to make a fortune?

#37328 01/28/2010 02:59 AM
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HMMM...good question,,,i think most are out to get all they can,,thats just human,,the problem i have is that when i sell something quite a bit lower,then i cant replace it at the price i sold it at,so consequently,i think collectors try to max out on price so they can buy another one in the future when the price has escalated,,so i suppose if the "big time" dealers reduced their prices,perhaps a trickle down effect of lower prices for the "collector to collector" market would follow,but there again,the big time dealers are also caught in the trap of replacing their stock and maybe having to pay higher prices in the future,,,i dont know what the answer is except,prices will drop when others really want/need/must (to) sell their items...would like to hear others thoughts on this,,

#37329 01/28/2010 01:37 PM
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Where are his pieces he is selling?

I wish I could sell stuff cheaper, I wish I could get it cheaper. Competition is fierce. In my neck of the woods there are at least 12 guys that I know (including 2 that you all know) that kick and scratch for every bit that turns up. Add in the occasional hotel buyer, the proliferation of ebay, and craigslist, the roadshow and pawnstars, and you have to come in with a strong offer or people walk.

While overall selling prices are down, buying prices people still expect the same price. I had to tell a guy that an $3000 offer I made on a group of things 3 years ago was only worth $2500 to me now, and he walked.

We still try to price below most dealers, but no one is giving this stuff away.

That being said, I love to trade with other collectors, but it can be hard to trade without assigning a monetary value. I wish there was a unit of measure that could factor in rarity, desirability, condition, and coolness to be able come up with a trade value that had nothing to do with money. Maybe the "Jero"...
Roll Eyes


JERRY
GDC GOLD #0213

www.militarycollectorsHQ.com
#37330 01/28/2010 02:35 PM
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I have noticed a growing trend of the sellers here to ask for an inflated price and wait for offers.

In my mind this is not quite the same as a for sale item.

So, the prices are inflated. Even past what dealers would ask waiting for someone to start a negotiation.

Unfortunate.

#37331 02/05/2010 11:33 PM
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So, from the lack of interest in this thread, I should infer people are happy paying retail plus prices in our 'for sale' forum? Confused

..and that you would not like to see, say, a $100.00 or less subsection etc?

Input is needed to make your forum work better for you!

What would YOU like to see?

#37332 02/06/2010 03:16 AM
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While many prices seem to be high,some are very good.I picked up a nice WW1 EK 1st class at what I think was a very good price.

#37333 02/06/2010 05:04 AM
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My opinion is why should a seller offer something below market value only to have a dealer purchase it then make money for himself.
If an item is overpriced it just won't move right?
I think there has been some great deals as well as over priced items too.The deals move quickly the overpriced does not.
Nobody likes to lose their a--.JMO

#37334 02/06/2010 05:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Doug Kenwright aka "KURSK":
So, from the lack of interest in this thread, I should infer people are happy paying retail plus prices in our 'for sale' forum? Confused

..and that you would not like to see, say, a $100.00 or less subsection etc?

Input is needed to make your forum work better for you!

What would YOU like to see?


Subsections would be Ok, not for that reason though.
Obviously, an item priced at $99 can also be overpriced, if it is a common west wall, KVK2 or bronze mothers cross, for instance.

I wouldn't mind seeing things broken down into perhaps medals/awards, edged weapons, cloth & flags.
Add a misc & international [besides TR] category, and it would be better organized, and one could browse their areas of primary interest without having to sort through everything ,, And it would also be more focused for the sellers, perhaps increasing interest and sales.

Bottom line - 3 things are required for any sale.
A seller, potential buyers, and realistic prices.
Whats really needed to kick things into a better gear is more members, but thats obviously on admin to attract and keep members.
More members means more to sell, more people to buy, and of course a better info flow ,,, But it would seem that other, larger military forums with sales sections have periodic complaints about high pricing & sluggish sales also.

Sometimes I get a laugh out of starting prices, but its perfectly within anyones right to ask what they please.
Naturally,most any seller desires to get as much as possible for their items, and buyers want to give as little as possible.
Meeting those conflicting resolutions somewheres in the middle is the trick, some are better at it than others ,,, And the ones who aren't will go through multiple price reductions, threatening to sell it on ebay, take it to a show, or put it back in their collection, before it sells.

Personally, I usually tend to start off a tad higher than what I expect to get, and gear myself to perhaps 2 small reductions, then thats it, I'll let it lapse and keep it before going any lower.
Also, sometimes its an item that I don't really want to get rid of, but nonetheless can use the extra $$, so I'll float it out a bit high to test the market.

My attempted sale of a minty, unmarked SA is an example of that, I am sitting here right now very glad it didn't sell, and I actually went lower on this than I planned, reflecting my less than optimal financial situation at that time.

Unmarked SA

But whos knows, 6 months down the road I may try again, depending on circumstances.


Doug
#37335 02/06/2010 05:07 AM
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The for sale forum is not the place to look for a deal.It's seems that the for sale forum is mainly dealers trying to sell high priced items.
There's not much you can do about it.
It seems the items priced high in hopes a newbe will see it and buy it. When no one bites, the item gets reduced repeatedly.
Look at the ads carefully and remember if they sell like a dealer they probably are..


Randal.

#37336 02/07/2010 05:51 AM
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Just send the seller an email and make an offer. Worked for me. Item was listed for several days, price reduced twice. I shot him a mail, offered $X, seller agreed. I should recieve it in a few days. If you wonder, I bought Houston's Railroad Eagle.

#37337 02/08/2010 02:23 AM
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THE FOR SALE SECTION WORKS FINE, if an item is to high then it does not sell to bad but the system works well and for the size of it there is no need for sub sections IMO

#37338 02/08/2010 08:09 AM
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Good suggestions..

Now bear in mind as a mod, I get more complaints shot my way than you gents do..

It's all about making the forums work for you.

It can be a two way street..what if higher prices keeps the newer folks away, because they feel they can't get in at entry level?

We end up stifling the life blood of our hobby, new members.

The strange thing is, it is often the dealers here on the forum that give you guys the better prices..and the private individual that tries to max out.

Anyhoo, keep 'em coming.. Wink

#37339 02/08/2010 09:00 AM
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I like the idea about the sub-sections.
It would seem easier to find what you want this this way.JMO

As far as prices go, what buyer wouldn't want cheap prices but then I think most of your sellers would go elsewhere.How would you police what's expensive or inexpensive and I don't see how you could tell a seller what to charge.

How about the ones who are after these rock bottom prices put their collections up for sale at dirt cheap prices and lead by example.

Really appreciate that efforts are being thought about to improve the forum but can you make everyone happy?

#37340 02/08/2010 11:52 AM
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I aggree with Paulbear....works fine...If you think the price is to high...then wait it might come down...or just skip it, and go find one some where else cheaper!!

It does not cost you a cent to ask if he/she can come off the price...make a offer...

Sepp

GDC 0292 Gold

#37341 02/08/2010 01:50 PM
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Everyone wants to buy things as cheaply as possible and sell them for as much as possible. It's just human nature. I do find it funny when a sell starts out something for say $1,000, then drops to $950, $900, $850, and keeps dropping. They normally say things like "you'll never find one cheaper" or "a bargain at this price", knowing the only true bargain was when the seller bought it in the first place for a fraction of his asking price.

#37342 02/08/2010 02:27 PM
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You are right timboo.
"This is a great investment ! Will probably triple in price in 3 years!" type comments are also questionable, it makes people think hmmm, if it so good, why are you trying to get rid of it so badly ?
"Priced to sell!" always gets me too, its like, gee ,,, You're trying to sell it, right ? I hope then that its priced to sell - Cause if its not, it won't sell !

I think plain, objective descriptions, covering its strong points as well as any flaws, along with clear, comprehensive photos, is the best way to go about it.
Embellishments, grandstanding, theatrics are all, in my opinion, counter productive, and should be avoided.
The item should sell on its own merits with a bare description, with exceptions of course for rare/complex/unique items, that often have characteristics associated with them not readily apparent to the average viewer.


Doug
#37343 02/08/2010 03:50 PM
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The market is really interesting right now and is in a state of flux. I do alot of business on WAF and because of the mass volume of items and sellers, it creates competition, helping keep prices down.

My area of interes, Heer sabers was hit pretty hard by the downturn in collecting. Scarce, mint saber which would have commanded $700 only 2 years ago, i've been picking up these days for $350. I will say though, I am seeing green shoots in certain niche sub-genres and I suspect prices will turn up a bit.

As it relates to peer to peer prices, I do have to agree...not steadfastly, but i've noticed that on some forums prices are wayyy tooo high for current market conditions...while on other forums prices for peer to peer items are generally where they should be for this current market. I have noticed some moderately conditioned pieces on various forums where the seller is asking monumentally too much....and consequently, thier pieces have not been selling. Case in point. A seller on WAF wants 30 Euro for a so-so conditoned Ost winter medal. It's been there for weeks, while today I bought a mint, unissued ost with 100% silver frosting for only $50 euros. The fella who wants the 30 euros for a poor conditioned item is going to be holding onto that award for a long time.

If it's too much for what you're looking for, then don't think twice about it. Move on. The seller is the one who's gonna' pay the piper. I don't bother with haggling with prices which are too high for me.


_______________________

German Sabers
#37344 03/30/2010 05:34 PM
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I have sold many nice items on GDC over the past year well below retail. Most of the stuff sells within a few minuets to an hour and rarely sits in the for sale forum more then a day. The stuff that folks overprice sits for ever. You have to be on your toes and watch like a hawk if you want to get the bargains listed on GDC they don't last long. SmileI try and sell stuff according to what I paid for said item and what I think is a fair price. I don't care what so and so or the dealers are selling there stuff for. Sometimes a true collector gets the stuff cheap but more often then not its a dealer that will just turn around and resell the stuff at a greatly inflated price.I have seen items I've sold to individuals resold for nearly three times the amount they paid within weeks. That's just the way things are, good, bad or indifferent.

#37345 04/01/2010 03:26 PM
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I believe most transactions happen off site
anyways.All collectors should be able to make a little profit.All to often ,when a collector cant sell to another collector,guess what?
It gets consigned to a dealer at a huge dealer markup.
Pigs get fat,hogs get slaughtered!
Joe

#37346 04/02/2010 03:20 AM
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Items being priced to sell is a necessity, in this market, in these financial times..

#37347 04/03/2010 01:37 PM
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The "High Binders" (Big Ticket Sellers) are having a rougher time now getting their Big Numbers for several factors.

1. The economy.
2. Collectors who are willing to accept lower prices and are happy to get it.
3. In the Militaria world the advantage has swung over to the buyers. And they want deals. Who wouldn't?
4. Many collectors are placing their collections for sale and it's the best time to BUY than I've seen in many years.

I've had some of my best buys in the last 2 years. Couldn't even find the items before unless you went to a "Fill Basket" dealer. Frown

I like these big ticket guys. It makes it easier for me to sell my more reasonably priced item.
Yes, in some cases if you bought four years ago from a High Binder you will lose money if you try to sell it today. But then again in many cases you would have lost money trying to resell it after your purchase.

-serge-

#37348 04/03/2010 02:02 PM
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Serge:
I got a reminder of exactly this while watching Barrett Jackson from Fla. the other nite. They were selling a 90 LT1 Corvette. These were special Corvettes powered by Mecury Marine modified engines and the sticker price was in the $60s* and you usually had to pay over that to get one.
The pristine low mileage LT1 example sold that nite by BJ went for $17,500. Imagine if you had bought one of these as an "investment"?
Jim
*$60K was virtually unheard of for an American car 20 years ago.

#37349 04/03/2010 02:15 PM
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Jim,
Yes, like almost everything that was being hyped that was way overpriced like miltaria, Real estate in 2005, 1990 Corvette!? Eek - they used that term Great Investment. Roll Eyes

Try to sell that hyped "Great Investment" for cash today...you'll get a real view of the Real World.

-serge-

#37350 04/03/2010 08:06 PM
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Just to let you know guys, I have talked to many of the part time dealers that sell on this forum, and they are pricing to sell.

Some of the best deals are found here! Cool

#37351 04/04/2010 03:01 AM
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i disagree I watch the fourm and lets say we look at sa daggers look back through and find one that has been even in the ball park for what you can find them other places they are all rare as per mikes chart I mean come on.Any given day stuff on there is through the roof.

#37352 04/05/2010 01:41 PM
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jim m, just a small correction, it's a LT-5 engine that the ZR-1 came with. I think all collectables have taken a hit in the price area. A great time to buy but sell only if you have to.

#37353 04/05/2010 02:14 PM
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Take a look at the Auto Auction Houses.
Big bucks being fetched.Provenance,Rare,
Condition,Racing/Owner history,(Racing)
AC,s going thru the roof!despite engine model. Wink
Ferrari 250GTO (one of 19) sold behind the
scenes for reported $20mill.Porsche ,73 Carrera
Lwt one of 117 went in Feb for nearly $350K
Last year fetching $$200k
If its good/rare,somebody somewhere wants it.
Seiler (Yank in UK)

#37354 04/05/2010 02:53 PM
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I think about when an SA in excellent condition went for $350.TW is writing a book and the price jumps $500 + for the same dagger's which were made in the millions.The best part WE buy them ,go to the shows and there are plenty of items .High price yes, some selling yes, but a lot of top pieces collect dust.JMO


You know you're over the hill when "Happy Hour" means Nap Time


#37355 04/07/2010 12:35 AM
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no we don't all buy them i refuse to give in I have the money but i will not pay there price.Does it make any diffrence no but they don't have my money to spend.If more did that it would change real soon.But no way that ever happen.


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