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#332689 10/27/2017 03:44 PM
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Is there any information on which maker(s) were selected for the mass distribution of daggers at the early feldherrnhalle november 9th ceremony?

What year(s) did the ss daggers get presented this way?

Thanks

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Dean,

The story of SS daggers is the same as SA daggers except 1) No prototype pointy winged were made or have turned up and 2) only 15 or so makers were chosen for SS daggers rather than the 200+ chosen for SA daggers.

Who was chosen and why is not known for certain. My thoughts: In the case of the SA, the large number of makers is due to the very large volume required and a desire to spread the wealth and re-invigorate the edged weapons industry after many lean years. The anticipated SS volume was much less. Why those particular 15 or so makers were chosen is not know.

The design and prototype production was in 1933. Production contracts signed early 1934, with distribution starting in spring of 1934.

I am not aware that any particular maker(s) were chosen for the Feldherrrnhalle ceremonies. If you have any hints that specific makers were chosen, please post.

Also I am not sure how long the ceremonies lasted. Anybody knowing the dates, please post!

Regards,
Dave

Dave #332695 10/27/2017 09:20 PM
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Dave, the pointy wing made SA daggers you're speaking of... are these the so called Christmas daggers you're talking about?

Krikke #332696 10/27/2017 10:48 PM
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Krikke,

Yes. They were prototypes, probably second generation, given to high SA commanders for their comments and approval. They were given out before Christmas in 1933.

I was deeply involved in product development before I retired so I can say with confidence that the process would have been as follows or very close to it:

- Drawings showing detail choice possibilities. Both engineering drawings and 'beauty' sketches

- A wooden mock-up or two of the des0ign(s) chosen as best.

- As a dagger is not that complex, a bunch of hand-made prototypes. i.e. the "Christmas Daggers"

Dave #332697 10/27/2017 11:32 PM
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Okay Dave,

then I have an interesting topic for you that I started on WRF.
SS Christmas dagger did excist for sure. In the provided link you see Himmler wearing an M33 SS dagger with such pointed wings eagle.
Further in the topic you can also see an existing example of a chained SS Christmasdagger. A dagger without inscription on it's blade.

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/ss-dienstdolch-1933-1936/h-himmlers-christmas-ss-dagger-656219/

Krikke #332698 10/27/2017 11:37 PM
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Here are pictures of such SS Christmas daggers.
They are off course very very rare!!!
As you can see, the eagle is not the standard eagle we are used to see and expect on a M33 or M36.
Having this dagger in possession would mean that you have one of the rarest daggers on earth I guess...
I don't know who this dagger has in his collection.

close up.jpg (61.21 KB, 175 downloads)
ax1.jpg (24.94 KB, 177 downloads)
ax8.jpg (25.57 KB, 177 downloads)
ax2.jpg (22.17 KB, 176 downloads)
Last edited by Krikke; 10/27/2017 11:40 PM.
Krikke #332699 10/27/2017 11:38 PM
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Last one.

ax3.jpg (14.65 KB, 176 downloads)
Krikke #332701 10/28/2017 02:50 AM
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Thank you for your response Dave.

If I'm understanding correctly.. the ss Rohm daggers would be ruled out as being presented at the November 9th feldherrnhalle ceremony??

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Dean,

Yes, I think that is the case.

The Rohm inscription daggers were some of the first to be distributed in the spring of 1934. Rohm was killed on July 1, 1934, and the order to grind his name off the presented daggers went out shortly afterwards. I don't see any intact Rohm daggers being presented after that date.

The only thing that might have happened is that the factories who had stocks of unused Rohm blades completely ground off the inscriptions and then used them in new daggers.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Dave #332710 10/28/2017 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dave

The only thing that might have happened is that the factories who had stocks of unused Rohm blades completely ground off the inscriptions and then used them in new daggers.


A thought worth considering. Thanks for that.

So, other than being a early model ss dagger there would be no criteria for trying to increase likelihood that it was presented at the FHH ceremony based on maker or any other factor?

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Dean, you asked: So, other than being a early model ss dagger there would be no criteria for trying to increase likelihood that it was presented at the FHH ceremony based on maker or any other factor?

There was nothing to suggest that it HAD to be an early dagger. There are RZM daggers dated 1934, 1935, 1936, etc. It could well have been one of those. Depending on how long the ceremony lasted, later ones could all or mostly RZM daggers.

Unless there was a dedication added afterwards, I can't see how one could be certain that any particular dagger could be identified as being presented at the FHH.

Dave

Dave #332719 10/28/2017 10:08 PM
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An m36 chained with an early eagle like that is surely not right


Regards Sean
seany #332720 10/28/2017 10:11 PM
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That dagger has been debated many times without any conclusion.

Dave #332722 10/28/2017 10:20 PM
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Ah cheers Dave


Regards Sean
seany #332733 10/29/2017 06:30 AM
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The conclusion that it is a well marked fake ? Debitsch mark 36 Christmas 32 and an 800 mark for good measure. smile Tent stake fur sure. The washer was added by a 90 yr old german woman though. For $50 after she scrubbed the floor.

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Well, but we're not talking about the chained scabbard... that could have been added later.
We're talking about the dagger himself. I think you can clearly see that Himmler is wearing such dagger. So mu conclusion is that they did exist.

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No - no conclusion at all. Opinions among the folks I consider well-versed in SS daggers is mixed.

Dave #332764 10/30/2017 10:24 AM
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Just look closely to the Himmlerpicture and its zoom in. What kind of eagle do you see on his grip? I don't think you can say that it is a standard gripeagle is...


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