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Joined: Dec 2015
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Howdy all, I don't want to post this under super fake because as yet it is not clear that it actually is fake - though I think so, by the picture evidence. But I must add I have not held it in hand and the previous owner says he's sure it's real - dug found.
I would especially ask Gaspare, Odal and perhaps most of all Hapur to give their professional opinions. Because if this ring IS real.. then there is a lot of learning in this. Well, there will be a lot of learning in this for some of us, anyways! :-)
Mark
PS I know it's hard to say by pics alone... but as far as the pics, what is the expert's verdict? Also I should add that the band has been repaired, soldered.

Skull Cast? .jpg (17.38 KB, 229 downloads)
Skull Cast?.jpeg (66.91 KB, 234 downloads)
Skull Cast?2.jpeg (58.14 KB, 234 downloads)
Skull Cast?3.jpeg (58.97 KB, 235 downloads)
Skull Cast?4.jpeg (50.72 KB, 235 downloads)
Last edited by Mark4321; 03/27/2017 02:49 PM.
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Guys allow me put here my 3 cents. So As some of You know this ring was part of my collection I have recently sold (not all bay almost half). The ring we are talking here about is as Mark mentioned a dug found. I know this rings long time before I have bought it. I have seen pictures when it was found before restoration. So the ring was complete but band was terribly bent. It was straighten but attaching points of the band to the skull were very weak and have been soldered again. Remember it is thin silver so the jeweler could do it only the way it looks now. Due the soldering ring was completely cleaned off the patina. I have to mention that the restoration was made by the former owner not me. When I have bought it I decided to put new patina (dyed it). Ring is marek inside HK and 800. That is all I wanted to say.

Last edited by Gottlieb; 03/27/2017 03:49 PM.
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Some explaining picture

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I think only this pics are real not good enaugh in this case, but a soldering in this critical areas
at the shoulders explains the "pearls" outside.
All in all i think it is a critical pattern Overall.
A lot of fakes are around.
Sometimes with (hope i remember right) czech import marks.

Last edited by odal; 03/27/2017 06:15 PM.

�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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That is why I decided to buy it knowing its history.

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If you're right then I'm wrong and I'm happy for you. And then we have learned some important things here: namely that a ring can look mighty fake and still be real? Wonder what Big G and Hapur think about this...

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The Grimacing Skull pattern it is called.

ok, I see now,, the first photo is how it was found! Wow, actually in relic condition!
I'm surprised the jeweler got it to how it is!, bravo! It is hard to tell anything now. I'm sure the jeweler was light sanding, polishing etc. to clean it,,maybe a chemical bath[?].
From that 1st photo to how it is now!!, pretty good work..

Last edited by Gaspare; 03/28/2017 06:01 AM.
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Thanx Gaspar I will tell my friend he that he has a golden finger jeweler :-). Honestly this days it is pretty hard to find a professional jeweler who would like to help.

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It does look strange. I have never seen balls/pearls at the soldering seam. I do not know any solder type that creates balls instead of flowing. What about pores above eyes? and line over nose?

Is it possible to see inside ring hallmark area, hallmark (800 looks strange on pic) and that line next to hallmark?


There are less original rings than you think, much less...

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Unfortunetly I do not own this ring anymore so I can not picture areas You are asking for. Pores above eyes and line over nose are the signs of being worn 70 years ago, spending 70 years in the soil, digging it out, working it out and cleaning.

But if You guys feel better let's assume it is a fake. Everybody are happy and sleep well. I'm just sorry You do not "buy" my story about the ring. Yes I'm a cheater and would make so much effort to put such a "beautiful" ring on the market and earn $10 after cutting all costs. I think it is about time to quit this hobby and start collecting something else - less questionable. Sorry I had to say that....

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Originally Posted By: Gottlieb
Unfortunetly I do not own this ring anymore so I can not picture areas You are asking for. Pores above eyes and line over nose are the signs of being worn 70 years ago, spending 70 years in the soil, digging it out, working it out and cleaning.

But if You guys feel better let's assume it is a fake. Everybody are happy and sleep well. I'm just sorry You do not "buy" my story about the ring. Yes I'm a cheater and would make so much effort to put such a "beautiful" ring on the market and earn $10 after cutting all costs. I think it is about time to quit this hobby and start collecting something else - less questionable. Sorry I had to say that....


Hey Piotr! Even early in to this, I know the frustration of collecting, buying, selling- opinions, doubts- and man- I've got some sour notes in my collection... and have had some sour experiences... I don't think anyone is calling you a cheater, I've always found you to be an honest guy, if nothing else... remember the luft ring w red enamel? You posted it for discussion as a piece you had restored- some liked it, some didn't- I was probably the most critical there- but everyone liked it! Including me! And would a dishonest person post that? Never... they'd present it as "mint, untouched!" Piotr, i have (from a long time ago) 2 of my very favorite rings from you- a brassy pirate skull, and a ww piece that I love. Everyone is here to learn from both our successes and our failures-, nobody's perfect.... and I hope you continue to collect and share those experiences the hobby with us... thanks for all your interesting and informative posts, unique rings, and valuable insight.

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Agree to Mike in all points.


�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Agree also , Piotr is one of the good guys and I value his expertise .

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Guys this support is very kind. Glad I earned a good reputation. Leaving hobby ... I guess it is impossible to do it 100%. It is an illness. Reducing collection was an impulse and went pretty fast (half sold). Anyway to put it straight I'm just a human and make mistakes but some things are obvious for me and the ring we are talking about is legit. I'm in much better situation because I had it in hands and I know its story...

regards Piotr

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OK please allow me to put in MY 3 cents.
First off: nothing here is being questioned by me but the originality of this particular ring. So if anybody decides to be offended, then that's a shame, since that is not my intention to offend anyone. (I KNOW how to do that, if I wanted to, LOL! ;-) )

No, I'm simply asking questions to learn better, since that is what this forum is for, tell me when I'm wrong.


When I bought my first ring, it turned out to be fake. Bummer!
I wanted to believe that it's maybe real after all, but in the end I trusted the judgement of the experts.

And that in spite of all demonstrations on part of the seller who absolutely insisted it's real; He KNEW it's real because of 'the old man in the old house in Russia'. Hmmm... Kurland Kessel. Well well.

But hey I sent it back and got my money back, too! So, happy ending. Now, our friend Trigger owns it; apparently. I told him I'd be careful about selling this particular one.

Now back to this ring: Gottlieb you say you know it's real. Maybe it is, but may I ask HOW you know that, exactly? It would be interesting to know, since it sure has a lot of red flags and absolutely looks like a fake to my beginner eye. And I think I know one thing: Hapur knows VERY well what he is talking about, perhaps better than most.

I'm curious. It's possible the ring is real, though I personally doubt it. And like I said if I'm wrong then I'm happy for you.

Thank y'all,

Mark

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I can't help You and if my obvious explanations do not help what shall I do ? Cut my veins ?

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when in decent shape this particular pattern can be hard check out from photos..
Now this one!! IF that is it in the first photo only God and the jeweler know what he did to it!!
I've seen authentic pressed WW2 vintage rings ground dug,,get some weird acid bath for cleaning and when done look like a POS!,,[AAhh the hell with it we're all adult Looks like a piece of ********!]
anyway,,

Sure there are signs of it being a copy. But from these bad ******** photos,,and we know its been played with crazy, Ahem,,restored grin It would have been great to see some really good 'macro' super photos!
The real main thing,,,someone bought it, has it in hand,,and they are happy with it!..That my friends is what matters most!.., Enjoy.,G.

Last edited by Gaspare; 03/30/2017 02:14 AM.
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Originally Posted By: Gaspare
when in decent shape this particular pattern can be hard check out from photos..
Now this one!! IF that is it in the first photo only God and the jeweler know what he did to it!!
I've seen authentic pressed WW2 vintage rings ground dug,,get some weird acid bath for cleaning and when done look like a POS!,,[AAhh the hell with it we're all adult Looks like a piece of ********!]
anyway,,

Sure there are signs of it being a copy. But from these bad ******** photos,,and we know its been played with crazy, Ahem,,restored grin It would have been great to see some really good 'macro' super photos!
The real main thing,,,someone bought it, has it in hand,,and they are happy with it!..That my friends is what matters most!.., Enjoy.,G.


Thanks Gaspare, for this clarification and explanation.

I just want to add also to be totally clear that I never thought Gottlieb a cheater and never implied that he was.
All that was questioned here by me was the authenticity of the ring, and I'm sure it has happened many times that a collector was convinced of the originality of a piece... but was, perhaps, wrong.

That of course can happen in all honesty and to the most honest of collectors. Doesn't make you a dishonest person.

OK, can't be more clear than that.
Mark


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