UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories The Honor Ring Forum Luftwaffe Air Gunner ring

Hello fellow collectors, I intend to buy Luftwaffe ring from other collector. This is Air Gunner ring in nearly perfect condition. Please share Your opinion on this piece. I believe it is 100% legit but I want to sleep well paying this money for it. All opinions are welcome.

Best example I've ever seen. I like it

I'm concerned about the silver hallmarks. They seem pretty mushy to me, Laurin mark quite unreadable. Very similar to a post-war piece Gaspare and I saw at the max, and another member here quite unfortunately ended up purchasing.... if the ring is near mint condition... why are the marks so badly worn/mushed up? Good luck Piotr, hope my concerns prove to be nothing. (I've just seen fakes at this point outnumber good rings 10 to 1 now or more!)

Markings are very poor, band to thick and this deeper section of the band...are there dots? (pics are very small)...for sure not for this lot of money the ring is offered.
For me a "superfake".
Let`s wait G`s opinion.

I have received better picture of the markings

Oh man.. That's not a promising closeup. Forget the Laurins Mark- that F star (is it supposed to be a star?) looks really muddled and mushed up. I think odal made good points about the band thicknesss too. Maybe Gaspare will say differently tonight- I just don't want u to end up w a postwar piece if we can help it my friend! Best of luck on it-
Byz/Mike

I was told that dots signify casting, is that correct?

When ring band thickness became to good point of the authenticity? I have two same rings: right is mint and left from the ground. I don't think that dust inside side lines and band thickness can be the the sign of fake. Details are great, hallmarks are not the best, agree.

so is the luft ring cast or dye struck, what are the dots in the red circles?

Odal pointed to casting artifacts in his opinion, but actually this is dust and mud, I saw another photo without them

dam,, takes so long forme to get on!!,,

Yeah man,,this is a superfake,,,save your money.!

If not already in the superfake gallery thread- can it be added? Hell of a nice fake, someone's gonna get stuck with it!

Thank You Gentlemen, it was really hard but I let this ring go...

Interesting to see Odal and Gaspare ring in camparison with this. It's easy to say "superfake" without any facts than proof that this ring is ok. Really want to know what's wrong with this ring?

I would suggest to take only a look on that markings. They for sure not made by a die.

Sergey with all the respect for You and seller, for this amount of money ring has to be a textbook without any doubts. If it is good as the seller says he will sell it anyway. The main problem is that he do not accept returns what makes this sale more suspicious. I'm not saying that Mihail wants to cheat anybody but this is uncommon among collectors trades (first red flag). All the rest was told above by more experienced people in this field of hobby, people I trust and people I know they are honest.

Agree with you Piotr, but I want to see facts, camparison with original. Why only I want to see the ugly truth based on facts and not on only words? Why serious ring was identified as "superfake" only by visual point without comparing? I don't have this type of ring in my collection, so I can't compare with original one. I like Gaspare opinion about the ring and it looks like preconceived notion without any statement, just "superfake" and that's all. Also same with Odal, "I don't like dots inside the side lines and band thickness". I told that this is just a dust with mud and stated about band thickness in previous post and if you want I can show side photos without any dust on side lines. I want to see rings from Odal and Gaspare collection othervise I will think that they just trying to ruin Mikhail selling with preconceived notion. Every time one said fake other will catch it and party is over. I not pushing you to make other dicision Piotr just want to tell that opinions does't ended on both oldschool colectors. Also there was incident between seller and Odal and I think this is revenge. Nothing personal just my opinion from the side.

Of course would be nice to see comparison with no doubt original ring. Unfortunately I can't help because I don't have one to copare. Issues between odal and Mihail do not interest me. All I am interested in is good spend my money and sleep well.

Sure that will be best the best facts which can proof that this ring is good or not.

re triggerself,...can you show pics of the same ring minus the dots

Calm down friends.
I have 2 rings of this pattern and i will show this evening or over the weekend a comparision between this ring here and a original.

Again, no doubt for me this shown ring here is a fake.

Sure, here the photos

Compare this area

Here is the same hallamark on westwall skull ring

I'm too dont like it ring, look like a copy

This Westwall one is a fake too.
My good Sergey, where did you get this one?

That this is a fake you can see on the first look of the backsite of the shoulder decors.

Agree obviously bad. The ww skull is a needed skull pattern for me but it is reproduced and fantasized to death. Some collectors just avoid ww skulls altogether, it's probably not the worst decision to make just avoiding it completely... (I know G advised this to me a long time ago and really I hate to say he's probably right.)

May be you have something to compare with? Why you think that this is copy?

Two year ago it was original and now it's fake...interesting

Read this old thread careful:

"seems to be....", not this is.

So "seems to be original" and "fake" are the same words in your mind? What changed your mind this time when you saw westwall?

Ok, if you want to go from the 100th to the 1000th. So i will post pics for comparison of a Westwall Ring of this pattern to as soon i find the time.
But this all doesn`t make the thread starting ring good.

What does it mean?

So what is the answer? Why you change your mind about westwall ring?

It will be useful too, because I have also two westwall skull rings, one with similar marking other with Frey marking only.

I'm not trying to impose my view to other I'm just want to investigate this ring as much as I can. Most I hate when good rings became fake without any attempts to proof opposite and otherwise - when fake rings became original. Also it's harder to defend the ring than offend and search "red spots". For me ring looks very detailed and I'm agree with you with that there is missing bubbles under the left wing. I'm requested photo of this place, so to be continued

guys,,I've been collecting rings since 1976. I still don't know everything. In the 17 or so years I've been here I've shown my rings many a times. Sadly many of those old posts are now gone for one reason or another.
anyway... A Ln mark is something special. It meant special finishing and they were very proud to put their mark in the ring! The last mark is supposed to be a Ln mark in this ring. Wjat do you see??, Nothing. That is because the guys casting it can't get it right.
Myself, and Odal and others know the counterfeiters watch this forum. They have been watching for years. Yes maybe we don't always go in to explanations about whats wrong and that's the reason.. The ring is a great fake,,a SuperFake. Glad you save your money..

Here the detailed photo which show bubbles under the left wing. Left bubble is damaged by hit from left side. Other are in good shape. Just take a look to details - very very sharp. I like the line around the right bubble. Each edge is very detailed and smooth.

Here another photos.
Check details, such pattern can't be reproduced by casting.

Very good pics.
But i see nothing what isn`t possible in professional casting.
Still miss the one "fruit" under the left wing and have seen a cast hallmarking.
Here the correct one for such ring and for this Westwall/-front ones too.

Fruit is damaged by hit from the left if you don't see

Here is also correct hallmarks for westwall/westfront skull rings.

Hey Sergey,real sorry, but both of this Westwall skulls don`t look good to me

Why I'm not surpriced :))

Your ring looks casted, here screaming artifacts