Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#322311 10/14/2016 11:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,994
OP Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,994
You never see these any more. It's been way too quiet on here lately so thought I would share a rarely seen variation by Anton Wingen.


Last edited by lakesidetrader; 10/14/2016 11:50 PM.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,876
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,876
Likes: 1
All, of these I have seen were WKC


MAX CHARTER MEMBER

LIFE MEMBER OVMS
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Very nice one Paul, thanks for showing it.

Mac 66 #322328 10/15/2016 08:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,994
OP Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,994
Thanks, These are interesting for sure.
If you measure the blade it's longer than a std HJ blade and so is the scabbard. If you look careful you can see that the buffer matches the scabbard leather perfectly. Suggesting to me anyways that the same folks made the scabbard special to fit the knives. I always figured that generally these HJ scabbards would have been subcontracted and purchased in.
Anyways, seems when something different comes along there is always someone waiting with glee to call repro or fake. There are lots of HJ variants out there. Perhaps some day Ivan will share some Packs...

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,568
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,568
Likes: 5
Very nice. never seen this maker on one of these like Ron says normally WKC.


Regards Sean
seany #322348 10/16/2016 02:27 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,677
Offline
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,677
Paul

Can you show us the AWJnr mark on this one, I can't see it, my eyesight must be bad.

Gary

Baz69 #322355 10/16/2016 04:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,959
Likes: 9
Online Content
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,959
Likes: 9
Beautiful variant Paul, thanks for showing it. Would you have one of the other oddball variants by Wingen with the unusual grip screws? I'll try to post a pic or two, if I can find them in my files.


GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
Billy G. #322359 10/16/2016 05:47 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
That is correct, these late HJ bowie blades were made only by WKC.

There exist 2 variants:
- unmarked without a fuller
- WKC marked with the fuller
The scabbards are very typical late WKC.

Anton Winger Jr made so called "eagle head" HJ's (3 variants observed) but these are very early, unofficial HJ's.

Best regards,

Herman

1.jpg (166.54 KB, 383 downloads)
Last edited by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann); 10/16/2016 05:48 PM.

"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,994
OP Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,994
Interesting guys thanks mine is unmarked.
I was thinking these were all wingen but I was thinking the Knight, so I stand corrected. WKC.
Thanks for adding to the thread guys.

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,994
OP Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,994
PS Hermann, you never cease to amaze me!!

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,959
Likes: 9
Online Content
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,959
Likes: 9
For reference, here's one of the Wingen HJ's I mentioned earlier. These are old pics from DD Harris.

hj6972.jpg (126.4 KB, 377 downloads)

GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
Billy G. #322392 10/17/2016 01:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,959
Likes: 9
Online Content
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,959
Likes: 9
Reverse with the unusual spanner nut.

hj6971.jpg (103.98 KB, 374 downloads)

GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
Billy G. #322393 10/17/2016 01:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,959
Likes: 9
Online Content
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,959
Likes: 9
Wingen maker mark

hj6973.jpg (89.9 KB, 373 downloads)

GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,610
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,610
Originally Posted By: lakesidetrader
You never see these any more. It's been way too quiet on here lately so thought I would share a rarely seen variation by Anton Wingen.



Nice one Paul. I had one at the MAX. Surprisingly it didn't cause much of a commotion. Ended up trading it. Mine had the typical gold background and trim HJ diamond, unmarked, minty, just like yours.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Quote Serge: I had one at the MAX. Surprisingly it didn't cause much of a commotion. Ended up trading it. Mine had the typical gold background and trim HJ diamond, unmarked, minty, just like yours.


Hi Serge, wish i knew you had a nice one like Pauls for sale as i would have been interested in buying it.




Regards Mac 66.

Mac 66 #322453 10/19/2016 01:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,994
OP Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,994
Thanks for sharing Billy.
I've had those over the years. Very hard to find one w good enamel.

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,959
Likes: 9
Online Content
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,959
Likes: 9
Paul,

You're rivht. The last one I had a chance on buying, years ago, had nearly no enamel left. That said, I haven't seen one since.


GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
Billy G. #322593 10/24/2016 10:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Hi Herman,


What is the year of production of these WKC bowie knifes & why are they not RZM marked on the plain blade unmarked variant ?, just a few niggling questions in my mind.



Regards Mac 66

Mac 66 #322599 10/24/2016 12:59 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
That is an excellent question, Scott! smile

I believe they must have been among the last HJ-knifes made by WKC. Why? I have found several 1942 marked, regular WKC HJ-knifes and those had the exact same, typical late WKC scabbards. Also the hilt and the grip plates used are identical. (see pics)

The bowie blade ricasso was not wide enough to mark it with the 1942 WKC RZM stamp, so that could be why they remained unmarked.

Or maybe because they did not meet the official regulated criteria(the bowie blade is longer and than the prescribed length), WKC could have decided not to release them under their official brand.

Best regards,

Herman

1.jpg (170.44 KB, 249 downloads)
2.jpg (189.74 KB, 249 downloads)
Last edited by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann); 10/24/2016 01:01 PM.

"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Hi Herman,


Thank you for a detailed reply with pix to compare your 2 WKC hj knifes, i am thinking your 2nd answer could be correct as the longer bowie blade hjs did not meet the official regulated criteria rather than the bowie blade ricasso was not wide enough to RZM mark it as they could have marked the blade itself, maybe WKC had these blades left over from there WW1 trench knifes & decided to use them up because thats all they had left at the end of hj knife production late 42 into early 43 ?. just a thought to consider.



Best Regards Mac 66.

Mac 66 #322608 10/24/2016 09:31 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
Originally Posted By: Mac 66
maybe WKC had these blades left over from there WW1 trench knifes & decided to use them up because thats all they had left at the end of hj knife production late 42


I have heard that theory before, Scott, but when I compare the WKC HJ bowie blades with the ones from WWI, I observed some differences.

Best regards,

Herman


"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720

Herman,

How does the grooved blade with stamped WKC logo compare to WW1 trench knife blades ?



Regards Scott.


Mac 66 #322633 10/25/2016 12:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
I used to own a trench knife with a very similar blade to the WKC bowie hj knife, see link: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250006



Regards Mac 66

Mac 66 #322780 10/29/2016 06:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720

Mac 66 #325884 01/19/2017 08:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Question for Herman,


Can you tell me if the scabbard is the same size in length on your WKC 1942 dated regular hj compared to the scabbard on the Bowie blade variant knife please ?, if Bowie blade scabbard is longer can you say how much longer ? are these WKC scabbards longer than other makers of hj knife scabbards ?



Regards Mac 66

Mac 66 #325898 01/20/2017 05:23 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
Hi Scott,

The late period bowie blade HJ by WKC came with the standard scabbard (standard measurements) but with very typical features (see pics in this topic).
Actually, the scabbard is identical to the RZM marked HJ made in 1942 by WKC.

Best regards,

Herman


"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Hi Herman,


Many Thanks for this info, much appreciated !

pebbled leather hanger & snap loop strap as typical features to match pebbled leather buffer pad wink



Best Regards Mac 66

Mac 66 #325909 01/20/2017 11:09 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
That is correct, Scott.

These scabbards also have a pointy tip and an aluminium rivet in the middle of the (backside of) the leather hanger.

Best regards,

Herman


"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 720
Originally Posted By: Herman V. (aka Herr Mann)
That is correct, Scott.

These scabbards also have a pointy tip and an aluminium rivet in the middle of the (backside of) the leather hanger.

Best regards,

Herman



Hi Herman,



Thats another two very good features, the alloy rivet on the hanger is the clincher as i owned a scabbard with pebbled leather hanger & snap loop, it also had pointy scabbard tip but the rivet on the hanger was steel not alloy, all the other bowie blade hj knife scabbards with pebbled leather hangers i have seen over the years had the "alloy rivet".




Best Mac 66

Mac 66 #327024 03/06/2017 06:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,306
Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,306
Question
1. Has anyone seen one of these pictured in a catalog between 1933 and 1945 with or without the HJ insignia??
2. Have these ever been seen without HJ insignia on handle. (But still a period item??)
3. As some are unmarked can there be more makers out there??

They did make a drop point camp knife during the 30s
Thanks for any replies...
James

DAMAST #327025 03/06/2017 09:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,306
Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,306
Just to clarify, I'm not questioning that these knifes are not period..
I just have a few questions..
I have found the small version with bowie blade in a period 30s catalog but not the HJ size.
Regards: James

Last edited by DAMAST; 03/06/2017 10:05 PM.
DAMAST #327037 03/08/2017 12:02 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
Hi James,

Are you referring to the small bowie blade knife by Robert Klaas?

Best regards,

Herman

3.jpg (127.39 KB, 93 downloads)

"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,467
Likes: 16
Here is that knife; early style and with steel hilt. And smaller than the HJ.

Best regards,

Herman

1.JPG (138.65 KB, 92 downloads)
2..JPG (146.58 KB, 91 downloads)
Last edited by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann); 03/08/2017 12:06 AM.

"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,306
Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,306
That is it .
Picture is from the same catalog I have...


Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,207,673 SS Bayonets
1,704,359 Teno Insignia Set
1,071,915 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
SS Chain - Real or fake?
by Cevin - 10/26/2021 02:37 AM
Inherited Luft. Real or Fake please?
by Cevin - 10/26/2021 01:03 AM
Inherited RADs. Real or Fake please?
by Cevin - 10/26/2021 12:40 AM
HJ Boxed Leaders Dagger
by Mauser88 - 10/25/2021 08:57 PM
Police Knot?
by Fitzer - 10/25/2021 07:42 PM
Latest New Posts
HJ Boxed Leaders Dagger
by Mauser88 - 10/26/2021 11:32 PM
Police Knot?
by Fitzer - 10/26/2021 10:31 PM
Inherited Luft. Real or Fake please?
by Billy G. - 10/26/2021 10:01 PM
Inherited RADs. Real or Fake please?
by Cevin - 10/26/2021 08:25 PM
SS Chain - Real or fake?
by Cevin - 10/26/2021 02:37 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics30,923
Posts320,481
Members7,027
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
6 members (Billy G., Vern, ed773, sellick8302@rogers.com, Mikee, Mauser88), 46 guests, and 73 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5