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#319508 06/21/2016 12:39 PM
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This was purchased from a 93yr old Vet in the Syracuse area a few weeks ago. A fine addition to my personal collection.



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Wow,that's a rare beast Paul,Marry Christmas my friend

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It's a pity, not for sale((((

Congratulation with best dagger!


Buy Casberg sketches.
den70 #319515 06/21/2016 02:45 PM
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outstanding love the inscription and the adler!!!!!!! if that ground Rohm could talk of its recipient cheers, Ryan

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Thanks guys some very unusual features here.
Im's so pleased. smile

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Despite the fact that I am a condition nut, this dagger would be a great addition to any collection due to its rarity.

Great find, Paul!

If you ever decide to sell, you know where I live wink

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
JohnZ #319527 06/21/2016 07:39 PM
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I Am so jealous that is one dagger where condition does not matter, i would love to own it.
Enjoy


Regards Sean
seany #319542 06/22/2016 10:59 AM
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Very cool! Congrats! I would love to know more about the Christmas dagger, how many were given- is it a type of Rohm dagger, or were they all given on this one date (pre 33?) on Christmas? And also the scabbard color- does the anodized brown wear to this tan/olive? Thank u for the pic and any info,..,

seany #319543 06/22/2016 11:24 AM
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Great score Paul!

Single oval Eickhorn ground Rohm SA with all the early features (motto, eagle and scabbard).

Probably a ones-in-a-lifetime find.

Best regards,

Herman


"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
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Thanks Guys for the positive comments. Yes, this one is considered a preproduction prototype.
How many were given? Who knows I know that Dave has at least one, perhaps he has an idea?
This one is indeed a ground Rohm with the single oval trademark. The blade was further "dishonored" by breaking the tip. Good eye noticing the scabbard color. The reason it looks strange it that it's a soft copper base rather than steel. This no doubt is the reason for all the bumps.

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Thanks for info Paul- never knew that about the scabbard or the tip- was the copper ever used beyond that or strictly prototype?

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Hmm good question. I've never seen a copper or (maybe it's brass) scabbard before on a SA, but who knows maybe I should put my magnet to work!

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Ralf Siegert, Service Daggers of the SA and NSKK (English ed.). Ralf discusses and describes the rare early copper scabbard shell variation on page 93. No picture though.

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The copper/brass plated scabbard is very typical for the single oval, very early, Eickhorn SA (also called X-mas dagger): here is another one.

Best regards,

Herman

1.JPG (90.18 KB, 339 downloads)

"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
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And another one.

This one is from a single oval Eickhorn christmas... full Rohm!

Don't know if I am allowed to show the dagger as it is not mine.

Best regards,

Herman

1a.jpg (75.32 KB, 338 downloads)

"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
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For sure a "rare bird", congratulations to Paul for finding this example to share. smile smile Being personally of the opinion that the scabbard is more likely brass (2/3 copper) like those seen with naval daggers because of the coloration of the exposed base metal in the images, and the better mechanical properties. Best Regards, Fred

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I tend to agree with you on the brass Fred.

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Gentlemen, I think both makers of early daggers (X-mas) Eickhorn and Pack used cooper scabbard shell.

SMALL_A_COMPARE_HD_075.JPG (141.31 KB, 289 downloads)
SMALL_A_COMPARE_HD_079.JPG (128.3 KB, 291 downloads)

Buy Casberg sketches.
den70 #319564 06/23/2016 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: den70
Gentlemen, I think both makers of early daggers (X-mas) Eickhorn and Pack used cooper scabbard shell.



Hi Den,


Looks more like Brass than copper these early scabbard shells were made from imo.



Great & rare daggers shown here cool



Regards Mac 66.

Mac 66 #319565 06/23/2016 12:57 PM
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Thanks for starting a GREAT thread/post Paul on an outstanding, rare and seldom seen dagger. Brings back memories of this forum from the early early days cheers to all and some great daggers and pictures cheers, Ryan

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Agreed Ryan!
Ok so how were these brass scabbards finished?
Can you "blue" brass? plated? or what?
Thoughts?

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I always considered the scabbards to be finished with more of a "wash" or applied patina finish than plating, similar to the artificial patina one encounters on old Japanese and Chinese bronze/copper and brass sculpture and vases. Those finishes are very thin and are often lost to constant cleaning. The very few examples that I have seen always appeared to have suffered in the finish department. Most of the finish was completely gone on the scabbard with the brass body showing beneath. I never considered them to be anondized in the traditionally accepted sense. I didn't know that you could anondize brass. I have to admit that before your thread I gave the scabbards very little consideration. cheers and regards, Ryan

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Not a commercial process that I'm familiar with, my wife has some Japanese brass artwork that has a somewhat comparable brown finish. And some gold and silver designs that I think were possiby kiln fired all together with the gold having some of the same look as seen with fire gilt/blued blades. But without some looking into it when I get some time it's just something that occurred to me when thinking of what might the Germans have used at the time? That said, you cannot anodize either brass or steel with the Germans in period documentation using their word for "browning" to describe both the bluing and browning processes for steel (notwithstanding the fact that one of my SA daggers has what looks more like a copper colored steel scabbard than the brown seen with many others but that does not make it copper). Best Regards, Fred

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Wow congrats Paul...love the extra early font type...hardly ever seen on Christmas types..and the icing is the early Eickhorn logo. Well done. A Holy Grail in the SA dagger world.

Best Larry


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Larry C #319696 06/26/2016 11:27 AM
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Very nice catch Paul , congrats !

S+

Seppi #319710 06/26/2016 04:38 PM
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Great find Paul. Definitely one of the very first ones and too bad it is a Ground Rohm, but still a wonderful dagger.


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Paul
After all of the hotels buys I have done, never had one come in. But you never know, maybe the next one.But the big question is what do these sell for???
Bob


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A very nice and rare specimen Paul!Congrats!


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That's a beauty.. didn't know about the brass scabbard! Always learning! Congrats Paul, killer SA!! Kevin.


It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
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Thought these period pics would add value here.
These are from Ralf's excellent reference.
Paul

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That's interesting picture Paul.
From the picture looks to me like Pack fittings, what do you think?

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Good eye Ivan!!
There is a dead giveaway on every Pack Christmas dagger I have studied.
Once you see it you will never forget it, stands out like a sore thumb. Do you know what I'm talkin about...

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That photo belonged to Vic Diehl. RIP.

Dave #320192 07/15/2016 12:16 PM
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One of the good guys for sure.
Was talking to Witty today This one will be featured in the new, albeit long coming, SA reference!
smile

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Originally Posted By: sellick8302@rogers.com
Thanks for starting a GREAT thread/post Paul on an outstanding, rare and seldom seen dagger. Brings back memories of this forum from the early early days cheers to all and some great daggers and pictures cheers, Ryan


Indeed, Ryan..miss those days..

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yup don't we all. Doug, I don't see you at the "shows" anymore. Do you still attend? Soon all the "old guys" that we first met in the hobby will be gone, then we will become the "old guys"scary what 30 years does to you. cheers Ryan

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I also own one of these easy A "Christmas daggers, albeit a Pack and mine has the later eagle in the grip. The script is dead on identical and the blade is a ground Rohm as well.

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Ok, I'm going to ask, newbee here. Why are these called "Christmas" daggers? Beautiful piece by the way Paul/Lakesidetrader....

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Hey Patrick, Welcome to the forum.
The initial design for the SA dagger was conceived in 1932 and some prototypes were made up and I believe given as gifts Xmas 1932.


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