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Closest I could come in my references is a Watchman's sword? Your help is appreciated.
Paul

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Could it be South American?

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What makes you think that?

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Well, as I understand it eickhorn and other manufacturers made many different swords etc for export- and many South American nations had German made export pieces swords bayonets daggers. Brazil Argentina many others. Honestly I'm a total novice at blade identification but for some reason my first guess was P for Paraguay... No doubt Paraguay has a German connection, big time! And the one example in this article
I found about South American blades looks similar (the Paraguay one). Again, it was more of a question than a guess... So again, could it be South American? South American swords

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Is there any sign that there may have been a second scabbard ring mount. This is almost identical to several of the Police and "Schutzmanns Sabels. Without the piece of leather in the grip, and with the second hanger ring.

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No Jim no evidence at all of a 2nd scabbard ring.
BTW B. thanks for your feedback, great article too!
smile
Anyone else?

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hi paul
in my opinion on the above sword you are correct in saying possibly either a watchmans sword or a pay masters sword . mike is also corect in saying it could be from paraguay south america appears he does his home work and does know some important facts concerning militaria im proud of him to all ways try and help just as i do on these difacult military items over my long time in this great hobby i have had several german made sword blades exported to america and many south american countrys such as argentina / brazil/paraguay / germany did quality bussiness all over the world so this is nothing new there was a firm in new york city called schuller hartly graham who in my opinion was the tiffany of the civil war and they showed in thier catolog german exported blades to america and to outher countrys hope this information helps im sure mike is dead on with the initial p for paraguay or possibly pay master its tough to nail this one down . keep up the good work mike you are a great asset to our military forums have a nice day andy militarynut

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Yes I know that the Germans made lots of export swords. Apologies if I came across abrupt, I was just looking for clarification.
I do find it fascinating researching these things and appreciate the knowledge shared here.

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James, Damast has a huge library on swords if we can get his attention, he should be able to pin it down.

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It is a simple but very stoutly made basic sword from the Imperial era from the looks of it. The lack of embellishment / blade decoration plus the property number suggests an NCO level sword carried by a guy on duty.

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Not really in my areas of interest, while there was a South American market, looking at the sword and especially how it's marked with assembly numbers and the style of TM etc. - this might be one for George Wheeler to have a look at. With what seems to be an Antler on the bottom of the knuckle bow that looks similar to those used by Württemberg, I would not be surprised if this was a Police short sword from that part of Germany. Best Regards, Fred

Last edited by Fred Prinz - FP; 05/20/2016 07:27 PM. Reason: typo
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Thanks for that Fred...

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Hey guys just thought I would close the gap here.
This has been positively identified as a Pre-1918 Bavarian Municipal police sword.

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Period catalogs are usually a great way to verify an item as being one way or another. With the thing that's causing me some doubt being that the catalog shows what looks like a straight blade, not curved. Whereas the blade/scabbard on the short sword seems to be curved but that could be an optical illusion. Any possibilities for a straight on image lengthwise that would help in correcting what might just be an imaging problem? Best Regards, Fred

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Is that the Wurttemberg antler marked on the underside of the guard?


"If it ain't baroque don't fix it." Johann Sebastian Bach
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Originally Posted By: Len S
Is that the Wurttemberg antler marked on the underside of the guard?

Len, I see what you are referring to and that is my own sense of the marking. With Württemberg in Imperial times "under the wing" so to speak of Prussia adopting a mix of Prussian and a few other types of swords. So there may be listings of the police types like this one in some other catalogs, but none that I know of personally. Whereas the short sword posted here does have a similar appearance to that of a Prussian Schutzmanns-Extra-Säbel that had a longer blade (than the Polizei-Säbel type) but not flat sided, with a fuller equipped curved blade and a 2 ring leather scabbard. With the style of this TM placing it years later in the early 1930's. Best Regards, Fred

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I'm not overly sure how this can be anything else but from Württemberg, it's pattern 1560 Polizei- Wachtmeister Säbel für Württemberg. These scans are from the Eickhorn 1930 catalogue.

Gary

Wurt sabel.jpeg (188.2 KB, 132 downloads)
Wurt sabel 1.jpeg (224.01 KB, 132 downloads)
Last edited by Baz69; 05/30/2016 05:12 PM.
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You also have to have the right catalogue from the right maker in the right time frame. The small differences between makers for the same weapons during a short a period as the Weimar era can only be seen in period catalouges.
The mark above the P in Paul's first picture is the depiction of the 3 black antlers in the Württemburg coat of arms.

Gary

Last edited by Baz69; 05/30/2016 05:46 PM.
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Thanks to Gary I think the matter is settled. smile smile Best Regards, Fred

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Yes, thanks to Gary.

Regards,
Dave

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Wow, you guys are freaking awesome!!!
Many thanks smile

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hi paul
thanks for the kind words to us guys like frog prince jim w gary and outhers here you havnt even scratched the knowledge surface with us guys yet if being in this great hobby for over fifty years we should know our onions have a grat nice day andy militarynut


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