UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum SS dagger Gottlieb Hammesffahr authenticity?

Hi everyone
just wondering what you guys think of this SS dagger. Maker is
Gottlieb Hammesffahr and it looks good to me. Just wondering what others think.
heres the link

http://ww2germanmilitaria.com/gallery/edged_weapons/D-EW-D-77/D-EW-D-77.asp?ref=D-EW-D-77

if anyone could help that would be fantastic!
cheers!

Here is an original early Hammesffahr to use for comparison. Note the proper grip fit to the fittings, anodized scabbard. Early grip fittings.
I do not have a close up of the makers mark but yours looks a little week.

Here is the grip of the one for sale.

Hi jim,
Yes i see the tight grip fitting
To the crossguards. But ive seen
Shrinking of the wood on other early
Ss daggers. That link i posted has the
Maker marking. What do you think of the rest of the dagger. Im trying to get better close ups today from the guy selling it. Thanks jim for your help

I do not like the dagger, but we need to hear from others. There are some real knowledgeable members on this forum and I would like to hear from them.

You did not include the description from the seller.

SS Service Dagger (SS-Dienstdolch)
SS early nice quality dagger with nickel/silver steel blade in very good condition with a nice, deep etched motto, "Meine Ehre Heißt Treue" (My Honor is Loyalty).
The reverse of the blade has a manufacturer’s logo
GOTTLIEB HAMMESFAHR SOLINGEN-FOCHE
The dagger comes with a solid nickel/silver cross guard,
pommel and tang nut and a carved ebony grip.
The reverse of the cross guard is marked with stamped Roman numeral, "III".
The ebony grip has a nice snug fit to the cross guard and pommel fittings.
The grip has nickel/silver national eagle and enameled runic SS button nicely fit in place.
The grip has a hair line cracks on the center and cross guard but not disturb much.
The dagger comes with a black painted scabbard with solid nickel/silver fittings.
The scabbard retains about 95% of its black paint.

Condition: 8

$ 3,000

Ref #: D-EW-D-77

Thanks jim.
Im glad your helping. I need this before i buy. Is it just the fittings? Or is there somthing else? Thanks

The obvious point is that the scabbard should NOT be painted. It seems redone recently. And the grip has more than one crack and a small flake missing.

Apart from that, I would not buy this one without seeing it in person and probably seeing it taken apart.

thanks dave,
i know those SS daggers were prone to cracks and chipping though.

ya im not going to grab this one. thanks all for your help!

Hammesfahr was known for his daggers that some of them did not have nice fittings at all.
Compared with for example Böker, they had flaws from time to time. Bökers are perfect in 99% of their pieces.
Dave is right... the scabbard should not be painted but anodized.
Stay away from this dagger. There's played with this one...!

Sorry Krikke, I have never observed the problems you mentioned with Hammesfahr. Perhaps you can post some photos.

I will also say that Boker is no more perfect than any other early SS dagger.

Dave

I agree the paint job is not right. as they were not painted, but anodized. But ive seen painted scabbards that are mentioned post war paint jobs and still had good value. Now it will bring down the price for sure but you think its a total right off due to a painted scabbard? or do you see other flaws? again ive seen fittings not perfect on early SS daggers sold at lakesidetraders.com

heres a picture of an early Hammersfahr with some fittings that arent 100% tight. I wood over time shrinks a bit

And that was $3250 USD on lakeside traders

actually now i see what your saying. the flow on the pommel crossguard doesnt connect properly. ahhhhhh i see

Yes there were scabbards repainted during that era, but that one looks more like a "last month" era paint job.

As I said, absent the ability to inspect it and return without any challenges, I would pass.

Dagger prices are not rising right now or not very much. Keep your powder dry

thanks dave,
yes i think your right. the fittings dont fit properly, and the paint job is new, i agree. I believe this is a parts dagger, and is being sold as
an orginal solid piece.
cheers! and i want to thank everyone!

Read post 33.
http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/ss-dienstdolch-1933-1936/ss-dagger-4459-a-601156-4/

I didn't say that they all had bad fittings but this maker is
known to have them from time to time.
And Böker.... well this maker stays the Cadillac of SS daggers...

Krikke,

The fellow who posted "Shown below are some early Hammesfahr grips,note the fit and also one,of a few details,which is very common on early grips by this company!" is partly correct.

The truth is that poor fits like the ones shown occurred on the SS daggers made by all manufacturers. Not all by any means but enough that you should not have look very far for examples.

Why? The grips and crossguards were made separately and often by different companies. The both were hand-finished not identical. This led to gaps on one or both sides and grip contours that did not flow smoothly into the crossguard contours.

Age shrinkage gets blamed but I think the reality is more due to the above.

And I do not subscribe to the theory that certain manufacturers only used certain eagles.

Dave

They were all hand fitted and no-one is always perfect. I must say though, something is special about Bokers. In my mind, the 2nd TM though:)!
Good night,
Bob

Hi Bob I agree with you hope all is well cheers, Ryan

Thanks for enlightening me. Cheers.