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Joined: Jun 2004
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Hello folks, here is a mid period Heer dagger I just bought that has an interesting Personalization.. I can make out the "Rittm." for Rittmeister, Cavalry rank equivalent of Captain, but cant quite make out the "Hand written" part?? I have a few idea's but want your view on this please. There is also a jeweler engraved letter on the scabbard, please give your opinion of which letter that is also.. THANKS for any guidance on this!! Best, Kevin.

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It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
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Hello heers68, this is a hard one. On one hand it has the appearance of an old, contemporary engraving, on the other hand it looks like an engraving by a skilled engraver but no knowledge in german words.
The word "Rittm." (abbrev.) is PERFECT and says what you know already.
The handwritten part imho "SHOULD" be a signature (with the rank of Rittm. below) but it does not look like one. Letter for letter the handwriting does look like "Miem alter (or: aller; perhaps: oller)" which does not make any sense in correct german. There is a line above the "a" ("o") which also makes no sense, thus lines did occur about "u" in handwriting to make someone able to differ between "n" and "u" which can look the same in slobby handwriting. It could be eg. north german slang but I am not familiar with that. And the combination of handwriting (perhaps-)slang and the absolutely correct Rittm. does look highly odd.
The single letter on the scabbard also does not look like ANY correct gothic letter (which also leeds me to think that it was done by a skilled engraver who did not know how gothic script really does look like). The letter does come near to an "A" or an "R" but isn´t and does not resemble any other letter.
Regards,
Sorry, that is all I can say.


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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I know nothing about the language and can only agree with Wotan on what the writing appears to be. "Miem" could be "Miern?" The next word is even tougher. My GUESS is the letter on the scabbard could be the owner's initial. Could the language perhaps be that of a country occupied by the Nazis or allies of them? Maybe Dutch, Scandinavian, etc.? I don't know if the army had "foreign legions," as did the W-SS. But the dagger could have been a gift from a friend, relative, foreign civilian official, etc. The engraving is beautifully done, whatever it means.

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Could what's on the scabbard be 2 gothic letters?

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Wotan and others, thanks!

Wotan, on a European Forum a couple German speaking folk are in agreement that the top word is indeed a signature.. "Niemöller" with the line above being the dots over the "o". The letter on the scabbard being a somewhat Sütterlin script version of an "N" to match the name. What do you think of that?? Kevin.


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heers68, signatures do have no "rules". Therefore the collector fellows seeing "Niemöller" could be right - although in my own eyes, the first letter is no "N", how much I try. But as said there are no rules for signatures and it could be the personal touch of Niemöller to do his signature this way.
The letter on the scabbard for sure is not Sütterlin but gothic. Perhaps this is also a very personal way of combining two gothic letters N+R or N+A (I have to state that I have never seen something comparable before, normally there are two letters visible letters intertwined) in a single letter. As said, no common one gothic letter.
Perhaps we have here the personalization of a very artistically and freethinking man.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.

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