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#313562 12/06/2015 07:07 AM
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This is just a wonderful find. Price is too low in my opinion but a sign of the times I guess:


EARLY SS HONOR RING
A truly one-of-a kind item, the earliest German World War II "honor ring" obtainable anywhere today. The ring, heavily worn on its face, is engraved within the band: "Seinem Lb. Benson 24 .XII.33. H. Himmler" ("My Dear Benson Dec. 24, 1933"). According to honor ring expert Donald Boyle, who has personally inspected this ring, "...it is one of only a few of the first issued Honor Rings, being given by Himmler as a present on December 24, 1933 and is only one of three know to exist in the world at this present time, with one to Karl Wolff have been stolen in the USA about ten years ago and the other brought back by a GI whose wife took the skull off and replaced it with a diamond and the current owner having made a copy skull to try and bring it back to some sense of originality...". Therefore, this ring is unique in that it is the only one obtainable, unaltered, and one of only three known to even exist from this early date. It is also unique in that it is the sole example to have used the complete word "Seinem" in the inscription, versus the usual abbreviation "S.". It was only after 1933 that these rings became an offical award, made with a presentation document. The recipient of the ring was Kurt Benson. Benson was a merchant and after World War I he joined the Freikorps Oberland and Frontbann. In 1925 he became a member of the NSDAP (member 19,227). From 1926 to 1929 he was a member of the SA and August, 1929 he became SS member 1,642. While serving in the Konigsberg SS, Benson was promoted several times and on Dec. 16, 1933 was chosen to head the 18th SS Regiment. On June 30, 1935 Benson assumed command of SS section IV in Hanover. Benson also directed SS operation on "Kristallnacht", and continued those activities for days after. Upon the outbreak of war, Benson, a reserve lieutenant, was activated and was employed at Dunkirk, later killed in 1942 at Lake Ilman, south of Leningrad. An incredible find and a "must have" for the devoted collector.
Estimate $ 8,000-10,000

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,,,

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We've had the HR that had the diamond on it here years ago.

This one a really nice one..........

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I love that ring - there's something about the early 30s rings maybe it's the Roman numerals I love it! Nice posting

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seems the guys on WAF don't like this ring! Hey, IF, if the cert is real and Don says its good,,then I believe..

It's one of the first HRs made. IF we could see any outside band details that would be great. But if they are judging it on the inside or skull or,,, there could and would be big differences.

You know it wasn't too long ago when transition rings were thought to be fakes. They laughed at Don.
Same with the Roman numeral rings. It was not that long ago when guys like Lumsden and even Pepera [RIP] said no such rings were ever made. Well, I was there when John apologized to Don..

So, again IF the cert is good I'll go with Don ;

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I am not a specialist in this rings, but i like that one. smile


�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Pics above rises few questions for me.

From pics seems to me that inside is pitting that is not visible outside. If pitting is from soil etc. it should be visible outside too, I guess.

Inside engraving (thick lines) is dirt or what? Looks a bit strange, maybe toothbrush and water can help. If that does not washes out then I would ask for really good macro pics of engraving before spending this amount of money.

And what about inside edge? Isn't it too wide? Is it common for early TK rings? I do not know.

Last edited by hapur; 12/07/2015 04:12 PM.

There are less original rings than you think, much less...

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I like it ring , sure it original

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Originally Posted By: Gaspare
seems the guys on WAF don't like this ring!


When I look into the edged weapon section of WAF I dare to doubt that there are always too much experts around... and the same for TK-rings (beside when you, Gaspare, do attend grin).

Concerning the certain ring, these earliest rings have some anomalies and I am sure we do not know all about them, so a written "Seinem l" instead of "S/l" would not wonder me too much.
The pity is, that in my opinion it is nearly impossible to classify such a heavy worn ring for sure. Outside there are nearly no criteria, inside just the engraving. A skilled, old engraver could do this even nowadays (Btw these rings were always engraved in closed, ready state, NOT in the open "band" state).
This all said, from the proportions and the general look this ring could easily be an original.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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If Don says it is original...that is good enough for me...WAF is a joke!!!

Sepp

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Originally Posted By: wotan
[quote=Gaspare](Btw these rings were always engraved in closed, ready state, NOT in the open "band" state).


May I ask based on what you can make such statement?

Originally Posted By: wotan
[quote=Gaspare]this ring could easily be an original.
Regards,


I believe this is a key phrase in your post. Like you said there are no criteria outside, inside is only hand made engraving, we do not have database to compare it to other proved that period hand engravings from Gahr firm. So we see only nice hand engraving done by skilled engraver. Like you said it can be done easily today. So what else criteria we do have? It is ring. It has hole inside ring. That is only thing that matches 100%.
With all due respect to experts I believe that max that can be said about this ring is "this ring could be an original".


There are less original rings than you think, much less...

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Originally Posted By: hapur

May I ask based on what you can make such statement?

With all due respect to experts I believe that max that can be said about this ring is "this ring could be an original".


I have spoken with specialized engravers who DID such ring engraving at these times.


"this ring could be an original" ..... I did write nothing else only with the addition of the word "easily", so???

Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Originally Posted By: wotan
[quote=hapur]
I have spoken with specialized engravers who DID such ring engraving at these times.

Regards,


I doubt they did thousands same engravings on thousands one type rings. If they say always engraved in closed, ready state, NOT in the open "band" state - there must be a reason to make such statement?

I've also spoken with old engravers, I still do engrave myself so I kind of understand process. There is NO reason to make complete ring from flat band and engrave after, making job harder and longer. Result will be the same but it will take longer time. It is unpractical and unconvenient.

Regards


There are less original rings than you think, much less...

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clarify the question of authenticity can make the size of the ring: the height of the band and skull

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Have to agree, that size is a criteria. However in this case it does not prove it for 100%, since there are no other criteria.

Last edited by hapur; 12/09/2015 12:08 PM.

There are less original rings than you think, much less...

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Evidently there are 2 other rings at least, from this date, has anyone ever seen either of them? Or even better owned or photographed?

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The other roman nurmeral ring was owned by a member here years ago. He had it from a vert bring back. No skull but a diamond put on postwar... Craig managed to get it and had a skull made up and 'restored' it cry

We had great photos of it. Not sure it made the purge of years ago..

The ring that started this thread. Well, things got quiet real fast there. Couple big shits didn't like it but didn't elaborate. Don has always said, there were some strange transitional ring and even stranger were some of the first rings..
Originally when the ring first came out Don saw it, liked it but the owner didn't want to pay for a cert. Somewhere down the line someone got him to look at it again and do a write up.
Its a weird very early ring, unorthodox, before standards etc.
So again for me,[especially with Dons coa] it can certainly be what it is,,,and probably is wink

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Well, I guess I may have had a tad to do with it getting quieter over there on waf... I sort of blasted back at someone who just felt the need to try to insult me...i just didn't think it was relevant or necessary to the legitimate discussion of an honor ring...i know I'm the rookie here, but that personal business just got my Mediterranean blood going... I'll never respect anyone "expert" or not who talks to me like that for any reason. That being said, I'd like to thank my real mentor experts here whom I very much do respect and hold in high regard, especially Ron (tanker) who tried to get the discussion back on track - Andy, Gaspare, mr Jerry Dave my European ring mentors (hap odal gottlieb) and all of the rest of you here on Gdc who have taught me so much and been so accepting- and I do apologize to u all if I caused any embarrassment to anyone...still learning here, criticisms welcome -- thanks for hearing me out,
Mike

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don't worry about it Byz! Not one of the nay sayers gave any real opinion as to why they don't like it.. It was just something they haven't seen before. As far as the attacks,,man you got to have a thick skin to post on these forums. Your tuition is paid Byz,,go get 'em! wink

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I would love it in my collection close to its brother 24.12.33 dated.

Ric

Last edited by Ric Ferrari; 12/13/2015 08:00 PM.
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Ric - you have one of the other 2?

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I own the only one known (to my knowledge) with month in arabic (12) while the other two have both the month in roman (XII)......Don's certified.

Ric

Last edited by Ric Ferrari; 12/14/2015 05:34 PM.
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Very interestig !
Can you show us ?


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