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Joined: Aug 2010
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Gents,

Like many collectors I regularly search auctions for german daggers. I keep noticing many extremely rare daggers appearing at one particular auction house: Hermann Historica. Currently these include a gilded NSKK chained dagger and an HJ Leader Honour Dagger with damascus blade, to name but two. Other incredibly rare daggers also appear, regularly! My question to the collecting community is simply this: is this auction house well known and respected and how are they acquiring consignments of this rarity and importance?

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My two cents Gents,

I too have been seeing many hard to find and rare pieces coming to the market in general. I attribute this to the natural turn-over from long time collections that need to liquidate due to age, retirement, divorce etc. There are also some that think they need to get out while the getting is good, particularly TR. I happen to believe we are simply seeing a correction in the market. A great time to buy IMO.

With respect to Hermann Historica, they have a global reach and have a long record of handling extremely rare artifacts. This may be why people seek them out to auction their rare (expensive) pieces. They are an auction house and handle thousands of varied artifacts. Having said this, in my small world of Naval edged weapons, they will on rare occasions have a piece that I don't necessarily agree with. That doesn't make them wrong. It is simply a difference of opinion. I have the deepest respect for HH as they are one of the premier auction houses in Germany. They are run by humans of course and could make a mistake. However, they would never in my opinion, attempt to deceive. I would never have a problem working with HH. They have a solid reputation and stand behind their items.

Finally, my view is regardless of the dealer or auction house and their reputation, you personally need to judge the piece for yourself, particularly high end items. Bring in others if you need additional perspective before laying out the big bucks. Only you can be the final judge.


Wanted: German Naval Edged Weapons and Related Accouterments
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Herman Historica was recently purchased by Helmut Weitze. Just scanning a few pages I already seen enough to keep me away. For one example this listing of a pair of HJ knives:
Article / Information
HJ/BDM
Lot Nr. 7475
Zwei HJ-Messer

One knife is clearly a repro stamped 'Germany'.
You better know your 'stuff', or you'll end up damaged.
Too bad it used to be One-stop shopping for the well healed. They didn't have to worry, so they paid the Big Ticket. Now ? Ouch !

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I know what you mean Serge. I have worked in and with some of the largest auction houses in Great Britain for 11 years, and specialists are not infallible. When it comes to German daggers, Persian Shamshirs and other highly specialised fields, I have come to realise that I myself and other serious collectors know more than the majority of auction house specialists. Thats just because we read, handle and study more about the subject. That's why militaria auctions contain such a mixed bag, some of it is rubbish other lots are a bargain to the trained eye.

Regarding HH, I cannot help but be sceptical when I see a gold plated, damascus bladed, HJ Leaders Naval Honour dagger ... without... full provenance and a greater explanation of the significance of the piece. It's like Spink & Son suddenly announcing that they have in their upcoming auction a King Offa gold coin, in good condition! Every museum and collector around the world would demand to know how this impossibly rare piece had surfaced. They would get the British Museum to view it before the auction. Has HH asked for world leading experts to view this HJ dagger? For any rare IIIR dagger, the vendor should be prepared to list the full provenance, as is normal when one sells medals, coins, paintings, anything at all that is rare.

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You just got to know what you are buying yourself,to rely on anybody else in my opinion would be a mistake, do your own homework before you buy anything.
Serge
When did Helmet Weitze purchase HH, I hadn't heard that before, it makes me a little concerned to say the least.

Gary

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What you say has some validity, but given that all IIIR daggers have been removed from museums in Britain, that no shops exist anymore, that there are virtually no fairs, then it's hard to learn about the items without buying them from a dealer. One can't rely simply on photographs in books, many of which are of poor quality in older references. My advice is to buy one or two pieces from a source you can trust, and then get a feel for authenticity and learn what to look out for. After that it gets easier. I could buy from a flee market now and have confidence I know what I'm doing, but I wouldn't have been able to twenty years ago when I started.

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Gary is 100% correct.

- Know your Stuff. If you don't, do not buy.

- I did not hear of HH changing hands. As said ---- Concerning.

Dave

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Arminius

I live to the south of London and I can go to a show nearly every Sunday, they are not always the best shows in the world but in my opinion they are worth attending, I pick up almost every dagger I see, that's the only way to learn. This morning I was at the Bromley show, next Sunday I'll be at Ashford, the following Sunday I'll be at Chatham, I could go on and on, I could have been in Belgium today, there was a show there, well worth the trip I'd say, lots of shows if there is anybody who wants to learn.
I buy from dealers as long as I know what I am looking at, mainly though I buy from other collectors many whom have been in this hobby for more years than myself, I still know what I am buying though whomever I buy from.

Gary

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Couldn't say it any better than Gary, words to follow in the hobby for sure.


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Originally Posted By: Baz69
You just got to know what you are buying yourself,to rely on anybody else in my opinion would be a mistake, do your own homework before you buy anything.
Serge
When did Helmet Weitze purchase HH, I hadn't heard that before, it makes me a little concerned to say the least.

Gary


Gary,
At the MAX show Weitze himself had told a few dealers of the fact (although not to me personally.) However, the HH purchase by Weitze was confirmed to me by Tom Wittmann when I inquired.

Last edited by Serge (aka Wagner); 10/25/2015 07:10 PM.
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Sounds great. One day I hope to have that spare time.

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Any views on the gold plated, damascus blade, naval HJ leaders dagger on auction at HH currently?

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Gary, I'll send you a personal message. Would love some tips on shows in the South East. I also live in London.

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Originally Posted By: Arminius
Any views on the gold plated, damascus blade, naval HJ leaders dagger on auction at HH currently?

Hello: Arminius.. I have posted a old picture from my home town in Minnesota.I use to live two blocks from this!!..I'm sure you will know who he is...
On the HJ damascus blade.. And the student damascus blade.. It is plain as day to a person who collects this type of material what is going on..

1-Mar-10-Hermann-1.jpg (73.55 KB, 696 downloads)
Last edited by DAMAST; 10/25/2015 07:56 PM.
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Originally Posted By: DAMAST
[quote]
On the HJ damascus blade.. And the student damascus blade.. It is plain as day to a person who collects this type of material what is going on..


Look like the new[/i] Herman Historica has turned into the European version of the old U.S. Empire Auctions.

BTW, That gold HJ Leader is, well ... [i]not for my collection.
Perhaps wotan has a Gold version and can chime in.

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Wow, nice old photo. I guess there must have been a large German community there at some point. I didn't realise that the famous statue at the Teutoburger had been copied in the United States. In a way it's the Statue of Liberty for the German people.

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I don't think that one person owns HH. I think that besides Mr. Weitze, other people we know from the hobby may be part owners.

Anybody have info?

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It really would be good to know who owns HH nowadays. Every so often I see their regular offerings of the most UNBELIEVABLY rare items. Damascus and gold plated leader daggers every week there! Maybe Bormann finally died and their liquidating his estate, or some factory is churning this stuff out!

Ok maybe I'm being too cynical, but for goodness sake, what do knowledgable collectors make of this constant flow of the rarest of the rare into their auctions?

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A decent ss honor was sold last auction.

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Originally Posted By: Dave
I don't think that one person owns HH. I think that besides Mr. Weitze, other people we know from the hobby may be part owners.

Anybody have info?


... I don't see Mr. Weitze's name on the listings:

http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion63/imprint_D.html

https://www.moneyhouse.de/Hermann-Historica-oHG-Muenchen

just
Ernst Ludwig Wagner
Franz Hermann
Thomas Rief
Wolfgang Hermann

Last edited by Flyingdutchman; 05/19/2016 11:00 PM.
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Gentlemen,

just for the records: Mr. Weitze did not purchased Hermann Historica. There was a discussion between them, but the asking price was too high.
Best;
Flyingdutchman


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