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Currently on offer on Lot-tissimo by Andreas Theies.


https://lot-tissimo.com/de/i/9953137/p/6/
Der Sieger

https://lot-tissimo.com/de/i/9953136/p/3/
Der Fetcher

Not sure if its period or not but the opportunity here for forgers is pretty obvious. Quite irresponsible to sell these IMO

allach2.jpg (38.05 KB, 271 downloads)
allach3.jpg (40.57 KB, 272 downloads)
allach4.jpg (53.74 KB, 271 downloads)
allach5.jpg (50.91 KB, 271 downloads)
allach6.jpg (38.55 KB, 271 downloads)

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translated from ad.:

SS - allach: Complete set of the original cast or internal forms for the Allach-figure "The Fencer" Ottmar upper Meier, Munich (Allach model point 83.).
The mold set are made up of five forms the partially provided for the production consisting of several parts of the famous figure. The forms consist mostly of several removable parts together to form the entire set of necessary for the production of the finished sculpture elements. These original forms were used in the factory for the production of Allach "fencer". The assembled parts were then processed in the factory and finally fired. To illustrate verfertigte casts of these forms are displayed recently. Unique Liebhaberobjekt the history of SS-allach.
Condition 1 -. 2

Well many of the pattern are damaged. This would be great to have for repairs... It says "original forms" but they really don't look like it. They look brand new! Any 'Allach people' out there to offer opinions on this?

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Its not a complete fencer and a mix of two figures but a couple molds not open so possible. Even with the molds you would have issue and they will probably be grabbed up by a collector before someone lookimg to make one. Now I See both lots, not much to worry about there.

Last edited by ajax; 10/25/2015 09:37 PM.
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Even with the molds, assuming they are not damaged, it would be quite a challenge to make a porcelain figure of the quality of an Allach piece.
Erich

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I agree with Erich, it is difficult to construct the pieces in a manner matching the expertise of the Allach factory. Dennis Porell's books show some molds and he discusses shrinkage of the product in it's manufacture. Personally, I think things like this do not have to be offered for sale. If they were actually real, a phone call to the right person and they would be gone.

Mark

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Seeing your interest in Allach has prompted me to post this new item in my collection on this thread.
The design on the plate is the Irmensul,an ancient saxon motif, and the inscription around the edge is the Hitler quote from the 1938(?) Allach catalogue - 'No People live longer than the Documents of their Culture.'
On the reverse, under the glaze, is an Allach-style double siegrunen in a circle with some other writing that I cannot make out.
Im sure the plate is original to the TR period; it is well made, but why and how it came to be made is a mystery.
Any thoughts would be most welcome.

irminsul 001.jpg (57.25 KB, 168 downloads)
irminsul 002.jpg (60.15 KB, 167 downloads)
131122022612447265.JPG (52.14 KB, 166 downloads)
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Originally Posted By: Tristan
Seeing your interest in Allach has prompted me to post this new item in my collection on this thread.
The design on the plate is the Irmensul,an ancient saxon motif, and the inscription around the edge is the Hitler quote from the 1938(?) Allach catalogue - 'No People live longer than the Documents of their Culture.'
On the reverse, under the glaze, is an Allach-style double siegrunen in a circle with some other writing that I cannot make out.
Im sure the plate is original to the TR period; it is well made, but why and how it came to be made is a mystery.
Any thoughts would be most welcome.


Plate is current production manufactured here in the united states. Trademark is registered to Stephen Cook, author of Himmler's Camelot and you will see the sister trademark inside the publication. Registered out of North Carolina in 1999 and just went off the block last month so your about 70 years off. Might want to do some web searches before you bid.

Last edited by Vern; 12/16/2015 02:55 AM.
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Last edited by ajax; 11/10/2015 01:50 AM.
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Thank you very much. It is a nice decorative piece and just about worth what I paid !

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Originally Posted By: Tristan
Thank you very much. It is a nice decorative piece and just about worth what I paid !


If your happy its all that matters.

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The following email was received today. If you have further questions, you can contact the artist listed in the email.


"Although the plate is not original to the TR period as stated by Tristan, “ajax” should NOT use the word “fake” to describe the plate. The plate is an original piece of artwork, not duplicating anything from Allach or any other porcelain manufacturer. It is definitely post-war & marked with my logo, thus never meant to defraud. I am the artist & producer of this plate. If you have any questions, please contact me at stephencook@questknights.com."

Thanks,

Stephen Cook
(Kressmann-Backmeyer)


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Originally Posted By: Vern
The following email was received today. If you have further questions, you can contact the artist listed in the email.


"Although the plate is not original to the TR period as stated by Tristan, “ajax” should NOT use the word “fake” to describe the plate. The plate is an original piece of artwork, not duplicating anything from Allach or any other porcelain manufacturer. It is definitely post-war & marked with my logo, thus never meant to defraud. I am the artist & producer of this plate. If you have any questions, please contact me at stephencook@questknights.com."

Thanks,

Stephen Cook
(Kressmann-Backmeyer)



Ummm, that plate design is directly attributable in style and form to Allach pocelain Juhlfest plates. While it may not be meant to decieve the style and design is clearly taken from another manufacture and arguing otherwise would be similar to arguing that Mark Twain's Huck Finn copied word for word in Crayon is not Plagerism. In addition if it was manufactured in reverse off an original model it would be "fake" or a reproduction, the existence of the plate is not known but the manufacturer cleary knows what he did here.

Last edited by ajax; 12/16/2015 04:22 AM.
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Looking through the above posts I see something very close to Allach as ajax says above. In addition one of the two trademarks uses the interlocked SS flashes but in a circle.

Dave

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Here is Stephen Cook's description and history of the porcelain Irminsul plate. Note that only one was produced.

"Of all my efforts in the early 90’s in my home studio to produce inspiring porcelain “beyond Allach” by using my own artwork of similar themes & using my own logo, which incorporates my company name, Kressmann Backmeyer, around the defunct “Diebitsch” intertwined SS runes, this plate survived the many production pitfalls & dangers. It was fairly clumsy & thick, not reaching the highest quality like Allach, but too many interferences in my life prevented more experimentation, production, or advertisement, so it’s a one-of-a-kind plate. It does not contain any "Julfest" or "Julfest 19xx" as on front designs of the original Allach Julfest plates.

In 1992, I gave the plate as a personal gift to a German (then)-friend, but a few years later, I parted ways with that person & had no idea what he did with any of the gifts I had made & given to him over the years. I cannot take responsibility for what other people do with gifts that I've made.

Many years later, in spring of 2008, I was surprised to see this Irminsul plate in a Hermann Historica auction catalog titled as "Julteller" Lot #8006 in Auction 54 in the German Orders & Collectibles section under Waffen-SS. I didn’t want anyone to be deceived, so I contacted HH, reported my correct manufacturer name, that I had made the plate & had given it to XX (who they know well as an authentication expert), & asked for proper post-war categorization & description. The reply kindly dismissed my concerns, saying “thanks a lot for your information. The description mentions this plate to be a private post war production. Sorry for the misspelling. …”.

Even by 2008, computers & online internet registration databases allow for easy research of trademarks, so anyone can find my registered logo. Also I’ve been accessible via my website, www.questknights.com , which can be found via an online search. Per my recent email to you, which you posted on your forum, I provided my email address, stephencook@questknights.com , but still no one contacts me for source information."

Last edited by Vern; 12/20/2015 02:58 AM.

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Vern,

Ask Mr. Cook to join GDC and post his own remarks. It's not that complicated. No reason you should have to do this.

In the meantime, that first trademark linked above sure loos like the SS Allach marl but with a circular surround.

If he won't join and post ... is that a message in itself?

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Very interesting, thank you.

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Makes sense and that is pretty much the scenario I was bouncing and how it would end up in France. Most collectors are quite frankly lazy and will not search the web and if someone reached for a typical book they would not find that mark there, and I had to use the web and a request for a photo from the auction to back into the maker mark. I thought there might be an original example and could not rule the design out.


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