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#311484 09/23/2015 06:13 PM
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hapur Offline OP
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Long time have not posted anything so I decided to share some ring manufacturing equipment.
My latest toy from another trip to Germany - forging press, widely used in jewelry making before ww2, during ww2.
Can not say that my wife is very happy to see such thing in garden. It stand approx 4 meters tall... Have to build shed around it (my workshop have no more free space for new toys) and eventually to start restoration process.

presemaza.jpg (152.21 KB, 198 downloads)

There are less original rings than you think, much less...

www.totenkopfrings.com
hapur #311488 09/23/2015 09:06 PM
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Hap, that thing is enormous...I am amazed that such a big monster makes such a little product...I wonder how many pounds of pressure/inch comes out of it? (Don't put your fingers in there!) an utterly unique item, very cool hap.
Mike

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Perhaps she was expecting a garden gnome instead ? Looks like it could be pressed into service again. smile

Last edited by Thundahbolt; 09/23/2015 10:57 PM.
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hi guys
halpur when the germans build any thing they build it to last till the fourth reich i can understand why your wife wouldnt love it like you do a happy wife is a happy life best andy militarynut

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And if it makes you feel any better (although I don't imagine you feel bad about it, that thing's awesome)...my wife would completely freak out if that showed up in our yard....which is where, likely, I would be sleeping at that point lolol!

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hapur Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Byzanti
I wonder how many pounds of pressure/inch comes out of it?
Mike

It makes 63t strike. It does not sound much compared to hydraulic presses. But strike 60ton does the job what 500t push on hydraulic press can not make.

Last edited by hapur; 09/24/2015 03:46 AM.

There are less original rings than you think, much less...

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hapur Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Thundahbolt
Looks like it could be pressed into service again. smile

I fixed it and it is working already :)Last few rings I made on this garden gnome (in my house "working in garden" has few meanings smile. It is pleasure to work on it. Now it needs roof and new paint.

Last edited by hapur; 09/24/2015 03:54 AM.

There are less original rings than you think, much less...

www.totenkopfrings.com
hapur #311509 09/24/2015 05:04 AM
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Thanks for showing!
Yes, this is the right way to use this old items. To work with.


�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
odal #311510 09/24/2015 06:07 AM
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hapur Offline OP
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Here is another beauty - monster rolling mill. This one I found in Pforcheim, Germany (also called Germany's Goldstadt) Inheritors were cleaning out old jeweler workshop/firm, that was making rings and golden watch cases in 30ies-50ies. I wish I had bigger car at that trip. Had to leave lots of tooling for local scrapyard because I had not enough space in car and inheritors had not time anymore to wait for me to come back again and pick up all.


There are less original rings than you think, much less...

www.totenkopfrings.com
hapur #311511 09/24/2015 06:13 AM
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hapur Offline OP
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It is more than 100 years old, but working perfectly. Quality of rolls is surprisingly high, they are like new after 100 years working. I wonder how they could do such heat treatment to rolling mills back then.


There are less original rings than you think, much less...

www.totenkopfrings.com
hapur #311513 09/24/2015 09:24 AM
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Pforzheim.....about 70 km to my home from there


�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
odal #311514 09/24/2015 10:41 AM
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The quality and craftsmanship involved with making the presses and mills just doesn't exist anymore. Imagine how much pride in production there must have been put on the final products themselves, considering how well made their machines were to begin with... Great stuff, hap....it'll probably work for another hundred years!

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Amazing thread and great photos, thank you Richard.

Ric

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Hapur,,,,,WOW,, thanks so much for showing your equipment...

Some people think in the 1920s,30s,40s such things did not exist! These type presses have been around 100 years or so.. And as we see with Hapur they are still in use....

Even though old IF they are still within tolerance a little cleaning and oiling and they'll work fine...

A real treat to see,,,thanks again for showing them.....

Gaspare #312205 10/16/2015 05:53 PM
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hapur Offline OP
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My new toy for die making - filing machine. Widely used up to 50ies - after erosion machines (EDM wire cut) were introduced, filing machines in 60ies went to scrapyard.

DSC_0069.JPG (62.41 KB, 93 downloads)

There are less original rings than you think, much less...

www.totenkopfrings.com
hapur #312212 10/16/2015 08:59 PM
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grinder to finish off a die block?? or?

Gaspare #312214 10/16/2015 09:10 PM
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hapur Offline OP
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it was used for finishing out inside corners on trimming dies.


There are less original rings than you think, much less...

www.totenkopfrings.com
hapur #312245 10/17/2015 04:16 AM
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Do you think it could be a possibility that the HR was die pressed but in a machine like this? Are these machines around the world? They make images on soft metal [copper,silver] by means of a hand crank!

zzzzzzzzpenny.jpg (95.47 KB, 74 downloads)
Gaspare #312246 10/17/2015 04:19 AM
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the actual die.. Comes out of the machine already semi rounded.

Now I know the HR is much thicker. It would still have to be cut in to the proper shaped and length bar..

Then fed in to machine,, then a motor would take over instead of the hand crank.

zzzzzzzzzzzPennyPress.jpg (55.21 KB, 73 downloads)
Gaspare #312252 10/17/2015 05:53 AM
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hapur Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Gaspare
Do you think it could be a possibility that the HR was die pressed but in a machine like this?


In short my answer is NO!

I know this technology, I have some dies on rolls (will make pics later if interested). They are used as attachments on rolling mills. Used pretty much in jewelry making. However there is BUT. But they are used on hollow or wire type material and simple repeating drawing. HR is pretty thick and that makes it practically impossible to use this technology for HR. Why? On rolling mill material thickness is being flattened tenths of mm in each fed. HR has deep relief. That means it has to be formed in one fed (in one time) , forces involved would be giant. That means it has to be very powerful rolling mill and very robust. And that means very expensive and rare equipment. I believe I have largest survived prewar German rolling mill. I wouldn't risk with my my machine.
Next thing why no - is dies. First, much easier to make , service and repair flat die. On roll you have to calculate and change diameter of roll to keep drawing all over roll without empty spaces, otherwise it does not make sense having it on roll. Next, extra labor involved to prepare material. It would require making wire type material on another rolling mill at first. Then on another rolls it would be flattened to half round wire. With flat die you simply cut pieces of silver and throw them in press.
It all makes it too complicated and I do not see any advantages over flat dies.

Last edited by hapur; 10/17/2015 05:59 AM.

There are less original rings than you think, much less...

www.totenkopfrings.com
hapur #312254 10/17/2015 07:14 AM
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hapur Offline OP
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Here is my monster rolling mill. I believe it is largest survived German prewar machine.


There are less original rings than you think, much less...

www.totenkopfrings.com
hapur #312255 10/17/2015 07:17 AM
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hapur Offline OP
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more


There are less original rings than you think, much less...

www.totenkopfrings.com
Gaspare #312256 10/17/2015 10:56 AM
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hapur Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Gaspare
Are these machines around the world?

Basically it is simple rolling mill.


There are less original rings than you think, much less...

www.totenkopfrings.com
hapur #312257 10/17/2015 10:57 AM
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hapur Offline OP
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Here are forming rolls.

DSC_0081m.jpg (130.68 KB, 76 downloads)

There are less original rings than you think, much less...

www.totenkopfrings.com
hapur #312258 10/17/2015 10:58 AM
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more

DSC_0082m.jpg (114.47 KB, 72 downloads)

There are less original rings than you think, much less...

www.totenkopfrings.com
hapur #312270 10/17/2015 01:11 PM
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I
Originally Posted By: hapur
Originally Posted By: Gaspare
Do you think it could be a possibility that the HR was die pressed but in a machine like this?


In short my answer is NO!

I know this technology, I have some dies on rolls (will make pics later if interested). They are used as attachments on rolling mills. Used pretty much in jewelry making. However there is BUT. But they are used on hollow or wire type material and simple repeating drawing. HR is pretty thick and that makes it practically impossible to use this technology for HR. Why? On rolling mill material thickness is being flattened tenths of mm in each fed. HR has deep relief. That means it has to be formed in one fed (in one time) , forces involved would be giant. That means it has to be very powerful rolling mill and very robust. And that means very expensive and rare equipment. I believe I have largest survived prewar German rolling mill. I wouldn't risk with my my machine.
Next thing why no - is dies. First, much easier to make , service and repair flat die. On roll you have to calculate and change diameter of roll to keep drawing all over roll without empty spaces, otherwise it does not make sense having it on roll. Next, extra labor involved to prepare material. It would require making wire type material on another rolling mill at first. Then on another rolls it would be flattened to half round wire. With flat die you simply cut pieces of silver and throw them in press.
It all makes it too complicated and I do not see any advantages over flat dies.


That makes perfect sense, really...these were never purchased, they were gifts, and they made thousands...I agree the process must be the stamp of a die because as hap says about the extra labor and thickness...being the owner of an original hr, the first thing that strikes me is the weight. It's heavy.

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Yes, all very good points... But there are a few that think with a heavy press, warmed material, that it is the way the HR is made!
Well everyone has their opinion and even though shown with common sense and experience they will still believe.. So since we have no actual proof it is always good to discuss all this and welcome all opinions!

Hapur,, Myself,,I believe in the ole KISS way of doing all things.. Keep It Simple Sucker!

That is,,,Nice and simple and IF it works right and material costs are kept down and without a lot of rejects then ,,,That is the way!- A cut die, a press, and soldered up,,, for myself and most of us here that is the way!

oh yeah,,your new Monster!,, man that is like artwork!

Last edited by Gaspare; 10/18/2015 05:19 AM.

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