UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum SA - number four of the collection

Hi Everyone,

This is the SA dagger that I was given.

Ha on the reverse of the lower guard.

Maker - Gust.Haker

No markings on the hanger at all.

Slight chip on the grip woodwork.

I have wiped the blade but every time you replace into the scabbard it drags more muck out, is there any cleaning methods that doesn't require dismantle?

Anyways, As usual any comments great fully received.

All the best

Mark

Nice blade man! I've never cleaned the scabbards of my daggers.

lovely dagger, especially the vertical hanger
leave it alone don't pull it apart.

Oh and if you ever want to sell let me know.

That is a good one. And, a leather vertical hanger is not often found on an SA dagger and it worth quite a bit.

There is no way I know of to clean the inside of a scabbard without dis assembly, and that is very hard to do without leaving buggered screws and scratches.

Put some wax on the blade and the grip as well. The sell a very good museum was called Renaissance Wax that is used by the British Museum and is widely used in our hobby.

Also gently remove the hanger and clean under it. A little brown shoe polish or the wax mentioned above won't go astray.

Regards,
Dave

I would not clean anything - that blade looks absolutely great and the patina on the scabbard and hanger adds great character !!!

Thanks Guys,

Yes, I like this dagger very much and there is a small pot of renaissance wax on it's way (good old Amazon)

Regarding the hanger is there any reference pages for them on the WWW ?

Next dagger I will be posting is an NSKK with a similar hanger, Not to sure on the blade on this one though.
After spending many hours on this site and reading as much as I can I have decided to honor my good friend by continuing to collect as he has given me a fair start.

So it's time to invest in some books and if they are anything like Japanese sword books, they are hard to get hold of and expensive

Again, thanks

Mark

Mark,

No, there is no reference for the brown vertical hangers. They are few and far between and are mostly not made o specific patterns, like the SS hangers. They were locally-made one off pieces for the most part.You will find out more here than anywhere else. When you take it off, I'd like to see pictures.

Ren Wax is great stuff. You can use it on all parts of daggers.

Dave

Hi Dave,

Here's the hanger from the NSKK that I will post next. I will take the other off at the weekend and post.

Feel free to use any pictures for future reference materials.

Regards

Mark

Hi Dave,

Pictures attached of the SA dagger hanger.

Regards

Mark

Any time you play with a vertical like that, you take the risk of breaking it. I sold an SS one to a customer recently, and he just had to have it one more hole tighter, on his scabbard. Now he's crying because he broke the strap on a $700 marked SS hanger.

Thanks JR, The hanger is fragile and I don't suppose any amount of leather treatment will make any difference.

This was a question I was going to ask, do you keep them on the dagger and risk damage every time you get the dagger out of it's box or do you keep them safe off the dagger?

I have a few WW2 era Japanese swords and all have the knots, hangers and some have surrender tags BUT I keep them separate as these things can easily get damaged.

Regards

Mark

Mark,

I keep my SS hangers off the daggers because if left for any length of time, green verdigris develops between the leather and metal and this DOES damage the metal. Also because I store my daggers in thick white sweat socks and you might damage the hangers were you not careful.

I do put black shoe polish or Ren wax (whichever is handier) on my hangers. Leather can dry out badly and break and they are now a minimum of 70 years old.

JR,

$700 or more for verticals? I must have been asleep as I had not realized they had appreciate that much. I'm rich !

Thanks Dave,

WOW - If there's an SS dagger for each of them hangers, That is some collection Sir.

Regards

Mark

Impressive, Dave!



Those hangers alone represent a small fortune...

Best regards,

Herman

Thanks, Mark and Herman,

Yes, collecting has been fun and challenging. These are very old pictures and not very good resolution by today's standards.

I'm speechless Dave.

Very, Very impressive.

Is everybody ok with the Hanger snap clip marked DRGM..as the most commonly seen ones ..always had a triangular cut out on the reverse hinges ..as marked by the orange arrows.
In this hobby we are all ever learning..and when coming across what is early marked on a plated example..leaves me to ask these questions. Regards Larry

A very noticeable difference in detail and sharp contoured edges. IMO not even close in all respects.

Hi Larry,

I agree with you about the differences in the snap clips !!

the brown hanger shown by Marky is post war made type imo,

i,ve seen these on ebay, the UK seller had several of these including some black leather ones for SS, all had the same metal clip with the same A DRGM stampings, also look how furry the leather is on the inside, not for me these ones.



Regards Mac 66.

Thanks Gentlemen,

I bow to your knowledge.

Just one question for the sake of learning - I keep reading and hearing that these vertical hangers were unofficial, Where all the clips sourced from the same manufacturer ?

Regards

Mark

Hi Mark,


All origional clips did not come from the same maker/factory, there were many different types of snap clips used during the period on these SA vertical hangers, some were handmade by a leathersmith & they sometimes used parts like clips & straps from the origional short hangers.



Regards Mac 66.

Hi Mark,

If the inside of you your scabbard is dirty, I would not be scared of cleaning it.
I have done many of these and if you have the right tools it's a fairly straight forward job.
The key is to have the correct sized screwdriver to undo the scabbard throat screws, remove the scabbard throat and clean the internal runners which are normally full of years of crud.
You can clean them with spray oil and simichrome as they are normally steel or brass.
Make sure you replace the scabbard throat the right way around (I normally scratch inside the throat so I know which is the front).
Replace the screws and you are done.
This will prevent further runner marks on the blade and crud on the blade .
Best. Wishes
Ian

www.Germandaggerscrews.co.uk

I would not do it myself just to clean it. I have had to open a couple because the scabbard weight came loose and broke and jammed the blade.

If you try, here is how to do it:

As mentioned above, use the correct screwdriver. Not in terms of the width of the slot as it can be a little wider. It is the 'fatness' of the screwdriver blade that counts. It should fill the slot completely so it does not butterfly the slot.

With the screws out, use a stick of hard wood laid under the lip of the scabbard throat and tap, moving the stick around the lip.

Here is what it looks like as it comes out

As noted above, put a scratch on it as it must go back in the same way.

Here is what the runners look like. Some are steel or other metal. Clean the insides and use fine steel wool if you feel any burrs.

I still would not do it as the chance of not leaving traces are slim.

Dave

Hi Larry,
you nailed it! As far as i recall,these hangers are offered for around 80 in the UK.
Regards,
Gerd

Hi Everyone,

I was going to put the hangers in the scrap pile but I will put it on the dagger until I can upgrade to a real hanger.

Regards

Mark

Post a couple more pictures of that clip from the sides, plwase.

Dave

Oh boy! Dave, That is a very impressive collection of SS daggers! DO you still have all of these daggers?

Sure. Maybe one or two more

Hi Dave,

Two Pictures attached.

All the best

Mark

Hi Dave,

Can I ask what you are looking for in Side pictures?

Many thanks

Mark

I'm looking at the overall construction. There must have been hundreds of thousands of these made with various tooling so differences do occur. Yours is not one of the obvious fakes of the last 10 years, so I am curious.

Do you have any idea when your friend acquired this?

Dave

Hi Dave,

Asked my friend and he thinks at the very least 15 years ago on the daggers.

Regards

Mark