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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 47
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 47 |
Hi Everyone,
This is the SA dagger that I was given.
Ha on the reverse of the lower guard.
Maker - Gust.Haker
No markings on the hanger at all.
Slight chip on the grip woodwork.
I have wiped the blade but every time you replace into the scabbard it drags more muck out, is there any cleaning methods that doesn't require dismantle?
Anyways, As usual any comments great fully received.
All the best
Mark
1a.jpg (21.8 KB, 354 downloads) 2a.jpg (57.46 KB, 352 downloads) 3a.jpg (24.71 KB, 352 downloads) 4a.jpg (33.27 KB, 351 downloads) 5a.jpg (25.64 KB, 351 downloads)
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 682
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Joined: Mar 2014
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Nice blade man! I've never cleaned the scabbards of my daggers.
Die Treue ist das Mark der Ehre!
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,619 Likes: 9
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,619 Likes: 9 |
lovely dagger, especially the vertical hanger leave it alone don't pull it apart.
Regards Sean
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,619 Likes: 9
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,619 Likes: 9 |
Oh and if you ever want to sell let me know.
Regards Sean
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117 |
That is a good one. And, a leather vertical hanger is not often found on an SA dagger and it worth quite a bit.
There is no way I know of to clean the inside of a scabbard without dis assembly, and that is very hard to do without leaving buggered screws and scratches.
Put some wax on the blade and the grip as well. The sell a very good museum was called Renaissance Wax that is used by the British Museum and is widely used in our hobby.
Also gently remove the hanger and clean under it. A little brown shoe polish or the wax mentioned above won't go astray.
Regards, Dave
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 635
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Joined: Nov 2006
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I would not clean anything - that blade looks absolutely great and the patina on the scabbard and hanger adds great character !!!
Urban B Martinez Jr
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 47
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 47 |
Thanks Guys,
Yes, I like this dagger very much and there is a small pot of renaissance wax on it's way (good old Amazon)
Regarding the hanger is there any reference pages for them on the WWW ?
Next dagger I will be posting is an NSKK with a similar hanger, Not to sure on the blade on this one though. After spending many hours on this site and reading as much as I can I have decided to honor my good friend by continuing to collect as he has given me a fair start.
So it's time to invest in some books and if they are anything like Japanese sword books, they are hard to get hold of and expensive
Again, thanks
Mark
Last edited by Marky C; 07/02/2015 04:20 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117 |
Mark,
No, there is no reference for the brown vertical hangers. They are few and far between and are mostly not made o specific patterns, like the SS hangers. They were locally-made one off pieces for the most part.You will find out more here than anywhere else. When you take it off, I'd like to see pictures.
Ren Wax is great stuff. You can use it on all parts of daggers.
Dave
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Joined: Jun 2015
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 47 |
Hi Dave,
Here's the hanger from the NSKK that I will post next. I will take the other off at the weekend and post.
Feel free to use any pictures for future reference materials.
Regards
Mark
1a.jpg (35.83 KB, 283 downloads) 2a.jpg (35.34 KB, 283 downloads) 3a.jpg (34.96 KB, 283 downloads) 4a.jpg (34.52 KB, 283 downloads)
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Joined: Jun 2015
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 47 |
Hi Dave,
Pictures attached of the SA dagger hanger.
Regards
Mark
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 10
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 10 |
Any time you play with a vertical like that, you take the risk of breaking it. I sold an SS one to a customer recently, and he just had to have it one more hole tighter, on his scabbard. Now he's crying because he broke the strap on a $700 marked SS hanger.
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Joined: Jun 2015
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 47 |
Thanks JR, The hanger is fragile and I don't suppose any amount of leather treatment will make any difference.
This was a question I was going to ask, do you keep them on the dagger and risk damage every time you get the dagger out of it's box or do you keep them safe off the dagger?
I have a few WW2 era Japanese swords and all have the knots, hangers and some have surrender tags BUT I keep them separate as these things can easily get damaged.
Regards
Mark
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117 |
Mark,
I keep my SS hangers off the daggers because if left for any length of time, green verdigris develops between the leather and metal and this DOES damage the metal. Also because I store my daggers in thick white sweat socks and you might damage the hangers were you not careful.
I do put black shoe polish or Ren wax (whichever is handier) on my hangers. Leather can dry out badly and break and they are now a minimum of 70 years old.
JR,
$700 or more for verticals? I must have been asleep as I had not realized they had appreciate that much. I'm rich !
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Joined: Jun 2015
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
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Thanks Dave,
WOW - If there's an SS dagger for each of them hangers, That is some collection Sir.
Regards
Mark
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,703 Likes: 58
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,703 Likes: 58 |
Impressive, Dave! Those hangers alone represent a small fortune... Best regards, Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117 |
Thanks, Mark and Herman,
Yes, collecting has been fun and challenging. These are very old pictures and not very good resolution by today's standards.
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Joined: Jun 2015
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
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I'm speechless Dave.
Very, Very impressive.
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Is everybody ok with the Hanger snap clip marked DRGM..as the most commonly seen ones ..always had a triangular cut out on the reverse hinges ..as marked by the orange arrows. In this hobby we are all ever learning..and when coming across what is early marked on a plated example..leaves me to ask these questions. Regards Larry
A very noticeable difference in detail and sharp contoured edges. IMO not even close in all respects.
Last edited by Siegfried B; 07/11/2015 02:50 AM.
Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Hi Larry,
I agree with you about the differences in the snap clips !!
the brown hanger shown by Marky is post war made type imo,
i,ve seen these on ebay, the UK seller had several of these including some black leather ones for SS, all had the same metal clip with the same A DRGM stampings, also look how furry the leather is on the inside, not for me these ones.
Regards Mac 66.
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 47 |
Thanks Gentlemen,
I bow to your knowledge.
Just one question for the sake of learning - I keep reading and hearing that these vertical hangers were unofficial, Where all the clips sourced from the same manufacturer ?
Regards
Mark
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Hi Mark,
All origional clips did not come from the same maker/factory, there were many different types of snap clips used during the period on these SA vertical hangers, some were handmade by a leathersmith & they sometimes used parts like clips & straps from the origional short hangers.
Regards Mac 66.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 942
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 942 |
Hi Mark, If the inside of you your scabbard is dirty, I would not be scared of cleaning it. I have done many of these and if you have the right tools it's a fairly straight forward job. The key is to have the correct sized screwdriver to undo the scabbard throat screws, remove the scabbard throat and clean the internal runners which are normally full of years of crud. You can clean them with spray oil and simichrome as they are normally steel or brass. Make sure you replace the scabbard throat the right way around (I normally scratch inside the throat so I know which is the front). Replace the screws and you are done. This will prevent further runner marks on the blade and crud on the blade . Best. Wishes Ian www.Germandaggerscrews.co.uk
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117 |
I would not do it myself just to clean it. I have had to open a couple because the scabbard weight came loose and broke and jammed the blade.
If you try, here is how to do it:
As mentioned above, use the correct screwdriver. Not in terms of the width of the slot as it can be a little wider. It is the 'fatness' of the screwdriver blade that counts. It should fill the slot completely so it does not butterfly the slot.
With the screws out, use a stick of hard wood laid under the lip of the scabbard throat and tap, moving the stick around the lip.
Here is what it looks like as it comes out
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117 |
As noted above, put a scratch on it as it must go back in the same way.
Here is what the runners look like. Some are steel or other metal. Clean the insides and use fine steel wool if you feel any burrs.
I still would not do it as the chance of not leaving traces are slim.
Dave
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Joined: Oct 2007
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 952 Likes: 2 |
Is everybody ok with the Hanger snap clip marked DRGM..as the most commonly seen ones ..always had a triangular cut out on the reverse hinges ..as marked by the orange arrows. In this hobby we are all ever learning..and when coming across what is early marked on a plated example..leaves me to ask these questions. Regards Larry
A very noticeable difference in detail and sharp contoured edges. IMO not even close in all respects. Hi Larry, you nailed it! As far as i recall,these hangers are offered for around 80 in the UK. Regards, Gerd
Last edited by kreta1961; 07/12/2015 05:59 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2015
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 47 |
Hi Everyone,
I was going to put the hangers in the scrap pile but I will put it on the dagger until I can upgrade to a real hanger.
Regards
Mark
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117 |
Post a couple more pictures of that clip from the sides, plwase.
Dave
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 682
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 682 |
Oh boy! Dave, That is a very impressive collection of SS daggers! DO you still have all of these daggers?
Die Treue ist das Mark der Ehre!
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117 |
Sure. Maybe one or two more
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 47
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 47 |
Hi Dave,
Two Pictures attached.
All the best
Mark
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Joined: Jun 2015
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 47 |
Hi Dave,
Can I ask what you are looking for in Side pictures?
Many thanks
Mark
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,170 Likes: 117 |
I'm looking at the overall construction. There must have been hundreds of thousands of these made with various tooling so differences do occur. Yours is not one of the obvious fakes of the last 10 years, so I am curious.
Do you have any idea when your friend acquired this?
Dave
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Joined: Jun 2015
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Joined: Jun 2015
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Hi Dave,
Asked my friend and he thinks at the very least 15 years ago on the daggers.
Regards
Mark
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