UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Brass based 2nd luft?

Hey guys all's been rather quite here for the past while. I want to share with you a dagger recently obtained from the Vet’s family.
The 1st thing that struck me about this is that it weighs a ton. As soon a I took it out of the box I knew something was odd. Examining the scabbard I fin that it’s made of brass. The blade is plated with a hole in the tang very indicative of Klaas. The hilt fittings may be as well. Any one else see one like this before?
As always your feedback is welcome!

Hello lakesidetrader, here in the A N L section I think the frequence is still satisfying .

I have already heard several times of a full brass variant of the second luft but up to now have not seen one.
Interesting to see and as it is directly from a vets family it is highly possible that it is a period item.
As there are other kind of daggers in brass nearly unknown (eg. see the HÖLLER forest dagger in the Houston section) it seems that they had a very very short period of production, mainly due to the valuable material (brass) and the heavy weight which in no way has been comfortable for the wearer.
Nice find in wonderful condition, thank you for showing, regards,

I am pretty sure I have seen a brass scabbard before, I don't think I have seen the hilt fittings made of brass.
Best Wishes,
Bob

Paul nice dagger I like it. Some of the earliest 2nd lufts will have tapered tangs I wonder does this one? Either way would be fine IMO just curious.

Very interesting Paul! Strange thing is that you would think a brass based Luft would be initial production but these fittings don't appear to be early types but mid to late generics with no hand work at all? Have you put a magnet on the whole scabbard? Some earlier ones had a brass or tombak tip only. Plated blade does point to earlier production.. Be neat to hear Tom's question answered on the tang type. (wouldn't be conclusive though if non tapered as most very early ones are not tapered) Hilt fittings are brass too? Cool piece.. interested to hear more! Kevin.

The tang is not tapered but is plated.
The whole scabbard is nonmagnetic.
Now I've collected Klaas for years and one thing I do know is that they did lots of odd things and experimented plenty.
I really like seeing odd balls it what makes collecting fun!~
Good to hear from you guys, was feeling a bit lonely 'round here as of late...

I had a second luft where the fittings appeared to be Alpaca. As I understand it, Alpaca is a type of brass. Could that be what we are talking about here.

Hello Jim_W, ALPAKA is nickle silver. Perhaps you mean TOMBAK which is a kind of brass with higher parts of copper.But personally I doubt both materials (Alpaka, Tombak) concerning this dagger.
Regards,

Hi Wotan, I am aware of the difference. I have Tombak daggers from Denmark. I am talking Alpaca which many people, and the internet believe is a form of brass. I am aware we are talking German Silver, nickel silver, which I believe respond exactly like brass.

"Nickel silver, German silver,[1] Argentan,[1] new silver,[1] nickel brass,[2] albata,[3] alpacca,[4] or electrum[5] is a copper alloy with nickel and often zinc. The usual formulation is 60% copper, 20% nickel and 20% zinc."

It was just a thought. has anyone polished any part of one of these crossguards?

Kevin
Good Id on the fittings I should have looked closer as the back of that generic crossguard it’s quite noticeable and chances of a tapered tang coupled with these fittings would be slim to none. I tend to spend all my time looking at the pretty army dagger configurations although the 2nd model luft drew me into the hobby as my first dagger beautiful design it is. And you’re right when you see an early luft with hand work they certainly separate themselves from the normal dagger they are very special pieces like the early slant army daggers.

Whole thing is non magnetic.

Hi Paul,
I had one of these when I first started out with daggers.
It was a second Luft but not maker marked but it looked just liked yours.
I remember the crossguard and pommel were heavy and had a brass/copper tint to them.
I remember taking it to a Military Fair here in the UK and showed it to the late Harvey Riley who stated as soon as he felt the weight that it was post war.
I'm not so sure now but looks like it's one of those odd ones we do not see very often.
Best wishes,
Ian