UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories The Honor Ring Forum dak ring

HI, MY NEW DAK RING, ALL COMMENTS WELLCOME,HAS ANYBODY GOT
INFO ON THE ARROW MARK? MIKE

hi bonny1
nice to see you posting your newly made ak ring its defently an eye catcher at first glance. this is what i see and feel about your ring please dont take offence every body has an opinion and this is mine . in my opinion the ring is not hand done like ww2 made ak rings at these shops from the ak area at this time period . as far as embelisments on the side the palms they would be real flashed gold relief on each side not brass color i have many years experence like gaspare at collecting these third reich rings and both of us have been seeing more of these ak knock offs. this one in my eyes screams just made at the moment in my ring collection i dont have any real eye catcher ak rings but im sure some members have nicely made period ak rings that you can compare it with and if im wrong i will appoligize im sorry for this not so pleasent news but its the best i can say about this ak ring of yours best andy militarynut

WELL I DID ASK FOR COMMENTS ON MY (NEWLY MADE?) DAK BUT I FEEL THAT THIS IS JUST AN ATTACK WITH NO BASIS
YOU SAY IT SCREAMS NEWLY MADE AND IS A KNOCK OFF AND YOU CAN ARRIVE AT THIS DECISION FROM PICTURES ALONE
THE EMBLEMS ARE EITHER FLASH GOLD OR REAL GOLD. NOT BRASS THIS I WILL COMFIRM WITH MY JEWELER. OPINIONS
ARE JUST THAT OPINIONS MIKE

Mike,,,your saying all comments welcome! Andys been collecting rings a long time and has concerns! This is what you want to read. To either debunk it or find out about the piece.

-well its not one you see all over the place...
Is the inner band gilt? Can you spot a tiny vent hole anywhere?, at top or underneath? Join seam to rear?

In 2 pics I think I see a vent, but if we could see a better pic of the bottom, it may be there...agree about seam, is there one? I have to say that it's not a one looker, let's agree that the emblems raise questions...and not to tie it to another thread, g, but, is it just me, like with the runes, I have a feeling when I look at this, square in the swas, that my mind says that's a very deliberate swas. I don't know how to explain it, then the fronds, the pebbling, the lettering...it just raises questions as to the maker, the marks, the composite, and the construction. I'll say this for sure, if authentic, that's a stunner! Good luck, Mike...these are good guys and know their stuff
God bless
Mike

Hi guys! Just off work and thought I'd add my two cents on this ring. Unfortunately I have to disagree with the consensus so far. I believe that you have a nice quality genuine ring and I'll elaborate a little to support my opinion. This first pic is a genuine DAK Tripoli made ring. Nice, but not fancy. Silver with etched gilt, the lower ranks would have purchased these for their lower cost.

The second ring is another Tripoli made ring in silver with etched and enamelled gilding. Not the fanciest I've seen but a bit more expensive than the first. This would be more of an officer's ring.

This third ring is an Italian made DAK, maker and purity marked is silver with gilding. Again, probably an officer's ring due to cost.

This last ring is of the same type as Mike's, a period Italian made DAK. It is silver plated brass. The maker's mark on this one is a 5 star logo. No purity mark was required as it was not silver. This would have appealed to the lower ranks as it looked costly and flashy without the expense.

Notice the similarity in design elements to all three Italian rings. The difference is in who they were made by and who they were marketed to. But all are definitely period. I have documented about 8 different silversmith marks on vintage DAK Italian rings. Perhaps the symbol marks were used by the same shops on non-silver jewelry.

I have noted very few DAK fakes, and even fewer of the Italian designs. This next pic shows a very poor copy of an original style. It doesn't take much to find the flaws. Overall the most damning evidence is lack of design quality and execution. North African DAK rings tend to much more crude than the Italian versions which are very detailed. Sadly this ring is being sold as original, proving anyone can be fooled if you don't know what to look for.

So all in all, I have to give this one a thumbs up, although if you want to sell it, I will give it a good home.

hi bonny/members
well i see bonny that my opinion on your ring was said by you to be an attack on you im sorry you feel that way its only my honest opinion on what i see and truthfully if i was going to attack you i wouldnt do it this way so get that straight i love all people . you say how can i tell a fake or a copy ring just by looking at a few pictures well maybe my 50 year or so experence on buying rings and outher militaria tells me what i see and as far as my opinion . i still stand by my same opinion its a copy ring pleanty of them out there the first three rings that dak 1941 shows scream with quality not quanity nothing like yours thats for sure. yes its all in the artist that shows quality in thier ww2 war ring work. the last fourth ring that dak 1941 shows is in my eyes terrible no workmanship at all dak 1941 thanks very much for showing those great quality made ak rings killer rings thanks again best andy militarynut

Thanks Andy, I'm glad you liked my rings. What the important thing is is the exchange of ideas and opinions. In a field where often the true facts are unknown, and fakes and frauds lurk around every corner, it is the honest and open debate that will protect and instruct us all. Without debate and differing opinions true learning will never happen. I still beg to differ on the originality of the last ring(and Mike's) but that is the beauty of the forum environment.

Comparing both the silver and brass rings side by side under my loupe both the design elements and detail of design in both are apparent. If the brass rings are knockoffs, why wouldnt they make them out of silver and/or mark them with a silver hallmark as most of the fake/fantasy TR rings are? I personally observe that most of the high quality fakes are of much more valuable TR rings than DAK ones. The DAK fakes I see are mostly North African style knockoff with blatent flaws and poor design quality and execution. Merely more food for thought...

Byz/Mike,,,yes I see it there on bottom. But,,I've seen fakes with the hole!, not a real hole but included when it was cast..

So lets see about bonny's answers/photos if he'd like to post..

[nice rings DAK!]

Thanks G! If you look the hole is visible in pics 2 and 4 of Mike's. It's a hard angle to see if it is all the way in, but the cast hole ones are usually a shallow depression from what I've seen..

THANKS FOR YOUR COMENTS, WHEN I POSTED THE RING I THOUGHT I WOULD GET CONSTRUCTIVE COMENTS,I DID NOT FEEL THAT
ANDYS COMENTS DID OUR HOBBY ANY GOOD, AND I QUOTE ( THANKS FOR SHOWING YOUR NEWLY MADE RING )WHICH I THOUGHT WAS SARCASTIC, AND IT SCREAMS TO ME AS BEING NEWLY MADE. I WONDER IF HE COULD POST SOME PICTURES OF THESE SCREAMING
KNOCKOFFS WHICH HE HAS RECENTLY HANDLED TO ENABLE US ALL TO SEE WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. I MEAN NO OFFENCE
TO ANDY BY REQUESTING THESE PICTURES AND APOLOGISE IN ADVICE. AS TO THE DAK RING, IT HAS A VENT HOLE AND A SEAM JOINT. I WILL TAKE IT TO MY JEWELERS TO DETERMINE THE MATERIAL OF THE LETTERING ECT. MIKE

I am in the "like it gang"
And i like DAK1941 constructive explaining very much too.
Thanks for this
It seems you have spend a lot of time in researching this DAK rings and a lot of knowledge about.

Hey friends...slow down...no reason here to get angry

I AM NOT ANGRY, JUST A LILLTE CONFUSED WITH THE CHOSE OF WORDS USED IN DESCRIBING THE ITEM

bonny,,its hard to get a tone sometimes here on the forum. Most of us don't write the way we speak and things don't come out right. I am sure [knowing Andy] he meant no disrespect.

We/all of us are on your side here. This forum is for the collector! The guys collecting a long time with large collections want you to have a good ring. We hate it when one of us gets a fake ring and are sometimes over critical...

As far as myself,,I just wanted to make sure it had the vent, had the seam, and gilt inner band [not all have that!]. The side embellishments might not be a low content gold,,they could be brass washed!
IF you know a good competent professional jeweler have him take a look and please let us know your findings...

THANKS GASPARE, THE RING HAS ALL THE DETAIL YOU ARE LOOKING FOR, THE VENT HOLE,GILT INNER BAND AND A JOINT
SEAM. I WILL TAKE IT TO A JEWELER FOR HIM TO ACCESS THE MATERIAL CONTENT OF THE SWAZ ETC. HOPEFULLY I CAN POST SOME BETTER PICS SOON.PERHAPS I OVER REACTED TO ANDYS COMENTS AND APOLOGISE AND HOPE WE REMAIN FRIENDS IN THIS GREAT FORUM AND HOBBY. MIKE

some pics of the blow holes, there are two. mike

hi bonny
glad to see that outher members e mailed in on the differences of this ring and gaspare is right about me and my words i sometimes dont use the right words and can be taken as an insult im sorry if thats the way you took it not knowing me and my words . any one that knows me realizes that i am harmless im hard shell but underneath the shell im a bunny bear so cuddle me . all im after is to help members out in what i view thier items as either real period items or newly made fakes that is all over the place appears some one has the dyes for certain rings this is also my opinion as far as the metal used on these rings why arnt they made from silver and gold well in 1940s silver price was worth nothing and gold was worth a little more a pack of soldiers cigaretts bought these rings maybe two butts who knows . in todays year 2015 to make that ring in silver and gold flased sides would cost probly 500.00 u.s.d. what collector would pay that price when its defeteing his purpose its still not real its a copy but then i hear well i didnt pay much b.s. now the luft officers ring i have for sale its made after the war but it was made in germany with 333 low marked gold i wish i had the german soldiers name who had it made in germany after the war but its still worth the gold content and it meant the world to this german soldier as he was in the 1st luft div. last getting mad hell no only dogs get mad any members here on gdc or whermach awards want my opinions before they spend thier hard earned money on reproduced rings or what ever militarythey are intending to buy i will give you my honest opinion and i dont shiv a git whose site you pick my friends are in my pocket these people dont pay my bills . as i said before if the heats to hot in the kitchen then best leave but i can asure you it will be a true opinion i know it may hurt but thats todays reality no one wants to hear they got screwed i love to say hey thats a real one . stay well every one i would appreciate speaking with some of you guys and meet the gentle bear at this years max show in pittsberg or sos kentucky in february god bless all god bless our service men n woman god bless united states of america andy militarynut

hi andy, I respect you are not going to change your opinion on this ring, again I request please show all the members of this great forum any of these many newly made fakes that are all over the place, so we will all
learn for the future. with respect mike

hi bonny
i am not a researcher for you or anybody else you have a computer look them up you see them but want every body else to do your looking sorry pal wrong guy . also most of our members know where to look ask them to look for you. i rest my case thanks have a nine day andy militarynut

I ASKED YOU VERY POLITELY NO ONE ELSE TO PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR CLIAM THAT THE RING WAS AS YOU SAY
FRESHLY MADE IT IS EVIDENT THAT YOU CANNOT SO YOU RESORT TO INSULTS, REMEMBER OTHER MEMBERS CAN READ WHAT YOU ARE WRITING I FEEL THEY WILL GATHER THIERE OWN CONCLUSIONS. YOU HAVE A NICE DAY. MIKE

Bonny,

You asked and got an answer you did not like from Andy.

He is, in my opinion, very good when looking at Third Reich era rings and you should give his opinion serious consideration. That he does not keep images of fakes does not alter this, nor does it diminish his opinion.

You say that "... other members can read what you are writing ...". True, and they are not shy about speaking up. Perhaps some more will, but the silence you hear may be saying something.

Dave

PS - Typing in all capital letters is regarded as shouting on the Internet. Please do not respond this way again. Thanks.

With respect to Andy's opinion, in the 1940s silver and gold were still silver and gold, even in a wartime economy. To follow this logic, that would mean all the brass North African campaign rings out there (Oran, Algiers, etc.) are new copies and only the silver ones are genuine. Obviously that is not the case. The fact is, these rings were made with differing materials and sold at differing price levels, same as jewelry today. Officers with more free cash would opt for the higher quality rings, while lower ranks could still get a nice looking ring of lesser materials.

I know we all get leery about anything with a swaz, and for good reason. The hobby is full of fakes that have been getting better all the time. So each ring has to be carefully evaluated on its merits and/or flaws. To me, it passes the test based on what I have observed. Others may conclude otherwise, but we can all agree to disagree from time to time and still remain friends. Andy, I'll show you mine at the Max this year, and see what you think then.

well my little dak ring as certainly stirred things up, thanks for all your comments. mike

hi members
like to coment further on your latest posts here on bonnys ak ring that i still feel that it wasnt made in the time period of ww2 1940-1945 . might have been made 5-10-15 years ago who knows but not ww2 . my first look at bonnys pictures of this great looking eye catcher ak ring . especially the inside i looked at the metal shank i knew it wasnt silver to me the coloring is off for silver . then i was loking at the rope design thats on top of ring it appears its been tested nicked to see if its silver please look if you agree or we can shrug that off as a hit to the ring . but it does appear to be a test knick no biggie also i knew just by looking at the shank of this ring that the shank was not solid but hollow i ignored the air peep hole didnt see it at pictures angle but didnt need it to make a discision . there are these little things that brings me up to my opinion about this ring . now dak41 i dont disreguard any outher ak made rings either italian made or outherwise also the workmanship doesnt matter only thing that matters to me if its period made . i would never say that unless i have it in my hand then i will give my honest opinion on those rings and dak41 your right these people are making these better and better and thats why we give our opinions here but i feel we should get all the opinions so we can make our own decisions befor giving any money last no body wants to hear that they got screwed and the ring isnt ww2 made . but again was the person looking for a deal just like ss honor rings i set up next to ss honor ring man don boyle at the max show and i seen watched several people every year who had thier ss honor rings certified by don and when don says to them its a good one they are smiling and cant thank him enough but then when don says sorry it a copy they call him all kinds of names and yell to the top of the world don calmly says take it back to the person you got it from sad but true and people hate him for telling them the truth about thier ring thats called denial and liveing in a bubble sorry guys i got carried away again dak41 i am looking foward to seeing you at the max and dave a great job getting all us guys together again thanks very much guys remember only dogs get mad thanks have a nice day andy militarynut

hi I think this pantomime has gone on too long, moderater will you please remove this topic. its doing my head in
my one regret was posting the ring in the first place. dog with a bone springs to mind. mike

Andy, the cool thing is we both evaluated the ring by looking at the same things, we merely differ in opinion on a few points. The inner shank is not silver it is brass. This is why it has a makers symbol mark and not the standard 800/makers mark combo. The ring is definitely hollow, and that is as it should be. All of them, silver and otherwise are hollow. The gas vent hole is completely through and not a cast depression. I believe two varieties with two different metal compositions were made during the war for the reason previously stated. If Mike takes it to a jeweler he should find little, if any, silver content. In the next few weeks I am going to have some rings analyzed by xray spectrograph, so I will definitely update everyone on the exact metals content of both types. It won't lay the controversy to rest but it should prove informative.

I say leave the thread. The whole idea of the forum is to present something to the collecting community for evaluation, and I would hate to see anyone discouraged from doing so over a friendly difference of opinions. We may never all see eye to eye on a topic, but the friendly discussion process only helps to strengthen the community. It isn't, and shouldn't be, a contest of who is right or wrong, but a presentation of ideas and facts.

ok leave it on , sorry I overreacted lets just keep it friendly. mike

hi bonny
yes you overreacted no big deal not to worry you didnt hurt anyone ak41 is right if we stay on the line every one that reads our opinions will help them in the future . we all might learn more as ak41 said he sees the same things i do only difference in his opinion and mine he feels this ring is war time made and i dont just like exraying the metals can that tell us that it was made in war time period i dont think so i had in my collection rings made from aluminum were they made just from nazi aircraft maybe they were pots n pans who knows thats called trench art . as far as going to a jeweler and testing for silver or gold to me thats a waist but if you insist do it why i feel the shank is silvered on brass just what it appears to be . prove me wrong and i will appoligize ok thanks again bonny for comeing back on board and thanks to every one else who post great day andy militarynut

Nice thread. Very informative. I am one of the many people who enjoy reading this forum and looking at the rings even though they are not my main interest in collecting. This is because of Gaspere, of course, but also people like Andy and the other regulars who hang out here..

Great information DAK1941. I think we would all like to see more of your rings plus more of the history of these rings.

Thanks for the info guys.

hi jim w
members thanks for visiting our great ring forum we have a few big ring collectors that hang out here gaspare is the moderator and a good one at that he knows his rings myself collector dealer for over 50 years odel from germany great knowledgble ring man new guy on the block still learning fast mike bynzi hope i got that wright . john z i believe he is a norweign/finland jewelry collector opps speaking about finland this last february at a gun show i bought some finish ww2 rings from two fins that did the gun show they sold me these rings and told me they were ww2 era rings they loked it so i bought them all . there are two with german helmets some have marks silver marks maker marks ect . i think one or two has an inscription inside of the rings the rings in my opinion are ww2 made from the era i have seen several in the past and these rings fit the bill . there might be one fin navy ring i will try and put them on in a few days with some german jewelry one nice set of american bund earings/necklace and a few outher pieces i will sell at this years max show thanks again best andy militarynut

hi members
please excuse me and my faulty mind wasnt thinking clearly i forgot to mention dak41 glad to have him aboard this great ring forum along with his beautifull ring collection and his expertiose and opinions . hey guys if i forgot any one else i opoligize please chime in here thanks andy militarynut