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Joined: Aug 2010
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Greetings gentlemen,
I recently saw this advert on a site called Empire Militaria. The dagger at first struck me as a copy of the Hermann Goering industrial dagger, but to my surprise, the people who posted this piece do claim that it is the real deal! I will repeat their description below:

START QUOTE...

Ehrendolch fur Industrieelle und Wirtschaftsfuhrer Part 1 of 3

Extremely rare German dagger. Etched and guilded Klinge with
Hoheitsadler: "Fur hervorragende Verdienste",Hersteller: Alcoso.

Beschlage and Scheide both Silver plated.Parierstange with large eagle and enamel HK. Black Horngriff, Decorated Griffkappe.Scheide with oakleaf decoration, 2 carrying rings with hangers,Guilded Silbertresse with HK's, this on Saffianleder construction.Silver plated Beschlage.

Extremely rare dagger, most propably the only one up for sale

Code: 50196Price: 18950.00 EUR

...END QUOTE.

I also attach photographs of this dagger.

What do people think? Is this the opportunity of a lifetime to see $20,500 USD well spent? Or is this something very sinister?

Best regards to all.

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More pics...

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image.jpg (110.85 KB, 627 downloads)
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None of the experts have any views at all? ....!

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Hi Arm. Ive heard that original examples exist however I've never handled one so just don't even know where to start. I suspect very few have, hence the lack of response. I guess all I can say is that selling such a piece would require providence and lots of evidence.
Paul

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hi sir
i usually dont comment on these type daggers but i have seen a few nice ones like this in my over fifty years in this wonderfull hobby . in my opinion i feel this dagger is a museum quality fake and look a like of hermann gorings industrial dagger which i believe is in a museum . however it is a magnificent looking dagger with museum quality hangers very nice quality but not real period made and certainly not worth this kind of money bad investment if you think its real hope you agree god bless andy militarynut

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This fake dagger is done after the one-of-the-kind Göring Industrial dagger (as Militarynut stated already) but this certain original dagger has several differences, a white (ivory?) grip and a true damast blade which has been broken after the war and was lateron replaced by a postwar damast blade done by Müller.
To my best knowledge the original dagger (with replaced blade) is in private hands, after several stations it lately has been offered by Craig Gottlieb.
The original dagger is shown in several reference books.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Thank you all. I first saw this dagger on the front cover of Atwood's book, daggers of Hitlers Germany. I have read about it subsequently and believed it to be a completely unique piece, hence my surprise at seeing this one, with etched, not damascus, blade.
The hangers on this post war copy look extremely good quality. The rest is not so easy to determine as the photos were a bit blurred. Would anyone sell a dagger this rare and post blurred pictures?
Something I also notice is that the swastika in the eagles talons is enamelled black. On the Goering example I don't think the swastika was enamelled.
Have a great day everyone.

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hi woton
thank you for shaking my memory loose again yes i believe if my memory serves me right the original dagger was sold probly 25 years ago by tom wittmann and at that time the blade was broken and replaced by some one and if my memory serves me right again originaly came from german factory where there were daggers and swords made and col. atwood serfaced it . this dagger shown is what it is thanks god bless andy militarynut

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Hello Andy,
Apologies in advance, but are you saying that this dagger is an original III Reich piece or a post war creation?

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I quite agree, thanks for your response. Provenance would be crucial. As an outside observer I would suggest that if people like yourself, who are fortunate enough to handle so many original daggers, have only ever heard rumours but never actually seen one, then I would never take the risk. It seems to me that this model was a one off piece for the Reichsmarshall, and was not reproduced as an industrial dagger during the period.
If it had a quality damascus blade that complied with all known standards of III Reich period production, then that would be harder to judge. But the etched blade looks as though it could have been reproduced quite easily post war.

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hi arminisus
yes in my opinion i feel its a museum faked copy where did this dagger come from can you tell us about where you surfaced it thanks andy militarynut

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My initial thought on the dagger was it was a quality reproduction, well made but still post-1945.

Playing devil's advocate for a second, were this a period item, wouldn't it easily bring many times more than the asking price? I've always felt that if something looks too good to be true, it usually is.


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Hi Andy,
I was searching some smaller sites based in Europe, and 'Empire Militaria' came up. Amongst some normal Heer daggers and various cheaper items, they had this piece for sale. No chained SS, no TeNo hewars, no government officials,... But.., they had this rarer than rare item. I did post their description above. The English grammar was bad.

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hi arminius
good evening does Empire Militaria own this dagger is there a name who ownes this Empire Militaria site perhaps i know him . they stated this dagger is rarer then rare not in my book im not convinced thanks god bless andy militarynut

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hi sir
i just looked at this dagger on empire militaris site priced at 18950 euros this guy is on the pipe thats my honest opinion god bless all andy militarynut

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Save yourself $18,0000 and buy one here for $74 euro

http://www.militaria321.com/auktionsdetails.cfm?auctionID=6412614

i agree with Andy this guy is high

Last edited by sturmbrigade; 04/02/2015 01:31 AM.

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Sorry i realised you need to join to view the images. This dagger has been 'salted' to add an aged look....

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rsz_5106331.jpg (117.16 KB, 326 downloads)

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Although the etch is different I have seen 'varients' on that site that have the etch shown earlier in the thread.


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Wow!
I love the weeds and rubble they photographed this dagger next to. Makes it look much more authentic! Just found!

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A mega-rare Funeral variant of the Industrial dagger with a Jimmy Durante eagle which is clearly 'self-authenticating'. ground found none the less. What else could one want ?

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Lol


Regards Sean
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hi serge
yes jimmy derante a dinker a dinker do what a big joke where do these guys come from the ground holly molly that soil is very rich it spits out fake daggers along with the tomatos wow great have a nice day all enough fertilzer andy militarynut

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I believe that I have the real dagger. At this point, I am not looking to sell it. I want to get it authenticated. Who should I use?

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RBowman, 1st you want to post photos here before you send it off for authentication.

That being said, if I had a dagger attributed to Goebbels, The only person I would use to authenticate it is Craig Gottlieb. He has a system where the dagger self authenticates itself. So if the dagger has a chance anywhere, it would be with Craig.

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Originally Posted By: Jim W
RBowman, 1st you want to post photos here before you send it off for authentication.

That being said, if I had a dagger attributed to Goebbels, The only person I would use to authenticate it is Craig Gottlieb. He has a system where the dagger self authenticates itself. So if the dagger has a chance anywhere, it would be with Craig.

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+1 self authenticating lol!


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