UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Help with Alcosa luft dagger

Hello gentlemen

Last weekend I bought this Luftwaffe2 dagger. I am relatively new on collecting German daggers, and need your help to identify it.
Tree other collectors have already comment the dagger, and this is what they said to me:
· The dagger is probably a fake and you should return it to seller. No German dagger has single strand untwisted grip wire, and the bad fabrication on the swastika would never have past the quality control. The same collector also believes that the dagger has strange details on several parts.
· Another collector writes this to me: It is a late Alcosa dagger, and it is probably made around 1942. Single strand aluminium grip wire is observed on daggers in other collections. Same type dagger is on a photograph in Witty book on page 195. This collector wanted too sees better pictures of the cross guard, too finally determinate if it was and real Alcosa dagger or not.
· The last comment was only regarding the hanger. This collector stated that RZM markings on a Luftwaffe hanger seem very odd.

Well, I am still confused and need your help. Is this a Frankenstein monster I should return too the seller, or is it a late Alcosa keeper?

PS! Sorry for small pictures, and my terrible English

Best regards FJ

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Hi FJ
Thanks for posting such an interesting dagger.
This is exactly why experienced guys say "never say never".
-The grip wire is right as rain. This is exactly how Alcoso made 'em.
-The other subtle thing going on here is that the grip is a rare "single start" thread. What I mean by that is that 99% of luft grips are wrapped with 2 pieces of wire. Some Alcoso's are wrapped with a single continuous wire. These are easily identified cause there is only one wire hole at the top and one at the bottom. If I'm wrong on this forgive me but I think that's what you got there.
Finally RZM Marked Luft hangers are quite fine. Why they are RZM marked? I have never got a good answer to but trust me they are fine. My best guess is that the fittings are used on some political hangers, or were suppossed to be, and the result is the RZM got put in the mold.

Hello,
I think the 2nd opinion is right. It is a correct very late produced Alcoso dagger. The blade has the last type of ALCOSO trademark. This type of grip wire is quite rare.
And about the 3rd opinion: the hanger is absolutely OK, no worries. "UE 10 RZM" mark is common on Luftwaffe hangers.

Janos

Of course me too agree with Janos and Paul.
For your comparation here you can see a pic of a similar handle on an AES I have in collection and that is totally genuine.

Nice dagger Fanejunker.
I sent you a mail yesterday about your dagger after i have seen the pics via a friend. Its 100% orginal late variant of the Luft II .Single wire in grip.
In the book of Wittmans Luft section page 195 you can see Luft II dagger exactly like yours.

Do you have pics from the upper crossguard ?

Regards LH

Jepp, LH600 was the second opinions father.Thank you very much

Pictures of upper crossguard and more, will be posted tomorrow.

Good morning gentlemen. First I will say thank you to Paul, Janos , the doctor, and LH600. You really save my day yesterday guys Internet can be a nice place.

LH 600 ask for pictures of the upper cross guards, and here they come:

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Some more details

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Bad Swastika

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Much better pics!
As often seen with these later daggers manufacturers used each others components to put daggers out the door. Alcoso used a mix of generic and WKC components to assemble this one. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks you very much Paul I am very glad this turns out too be a original dagger, and even a little bit rare Is it possible too point out wich year it was made?

Regards FJ

quote:

Originally posted by Fanejunker:
Thanks you very much Paul I am very glad this turns out too be a original dagger, and even a little bit rare Is it possible too point out wich year it was made?

Regards FJ

Hi FJ
Nice good pics. Thank you very much.
I bealive this Luft II you have is made in the end of 1941 beginning of 42.

I have a very spesial Luft II in my collection too Fanejunker. That dagger is pictured W Reference in the book of Thomas Johnson . I have not put out pics of it yet on GDC

Regards LH

quote:

Originally posted by lakesidetrader:
Much better pics!
As often seen with these later daggers manufacturers used each others components to put daggers out the door. Alcoso used a mix of generic and WKC components to assemble this one. Thanks for sharing.

Paul, what do you see as generic? looks all WKC to me, pommel, xguard and scabb bands.
I have its twin with that black finish, though mine does sport generic bands on the scabbard.

Nolan