UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories The Honor Ring Forum H. Himmlers Cufflinks?!

A friend brought this to my attention. Thought I's share it with you guys.. What you guys think? they stand a chance? ;):

- Offered for sale is a pair of original cufflinks in 14K gold (hallmarked 585) that the Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler owned. Their size is 1/2 x 3/4 inch and each has his initials on one side and SS runes on the other side.

They were made by the prestigous Gahr company in Munich. The couple Otto and Karolina Gahr in Munich, both goldsmiths, were the makers of the NSDAP standards as well as the golden NSDAP member badges. Otto Gahr died on 5 October 1932 and his widow continued running the business. After the death of her husband she renamed the company to Gahr München. Gahr also made the standards for NSKK and NSFK and Himmler had the SS Honor Rings made by her company as well. Besides these official party orders Gahr was the jeweler of choice for many of the Nazi elite.
- These cufflinks were taken from Himmler's house on the Obersalzberg in May of 1945 by Lt. D.C. Watts. He took many items from the Berghof as well from the houses of Goering, Goebbels, Himmler, Bormann and Speer on the Obersalzberg. Watts was one of the first troops up there and he shipped tons of souvenirs back to the States in duffle bags and shipping boxes.



A rare and unusual original Third Reich artifact that was liberated in 1945 on the Obersalzberg and that comes directly out of the high end collection of a longtime collector who has decided to part with some of his treasures! Full money back guarantee for authenticity.


- two of the four pieces are marked GAHR MÜNCHEN and all four are hallmarked '585' which stands for 14K gold..

,,,,oh yeah,, estimated price - $3,385. , whos up for these?

Very much money for stolen items

Stolen from a dealer/collector? Or stolen in the sense of the GI's "liberating" the items?

the stolen thing. That difficult. I guess sometimes it depends who 'won' and who 'lost' a war.
So are they 'liberated' and other pieces 'war booty'?,souvenirs? Or theft?, stolen property..
Problem with the Nazis/SS is that they were despicable criminals. Was that gold from the teeth of the Jewish?, or invaded countries melted down treasuries! So with the Nazis its never black and white,,so lets leave it there...

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These cufflinks. Had a quick comment from MilitaryNut,and I agree. Gold cufflinks for the man who has travelled all over the reich condemning the 'Jewish gold'. Also,, How about the style etc.? Don't think they're ornate enough for the RF.!

The hallmark is stamped in pretty good. And, at least it is not the crossed over S S marks from the Cultural dept.! Gahr firm in the early days used the Imperial hallmarks. Then added Gahr. I'd love to see any piece [military or not] of jewelry with 'Gahr' hallmarks on them!!

- here's the full advert.. On the home page,,some interesting pieces in the different sections!

http://www.od43.com/Himmler_cuff_links_RB.html

Your being kind utilizing " Interesting pieces ".

I had the exact same thought as militarynut when I saw it...himmler thought silver was pure and that gold had been tainted as it was a staple of the trade for jewish gold traders and goldsmiths. The other interesting point here is the liberator of record himself....1st Lt. Watts...my friend sent a link, highlighting the 3rd item down eva braun panties
Note: same liberator! Lt. Watts!

http://elmoremantiques.com/special.html (sorry, I'm not sure the link worked) 3rd item down

Anybody know the guy or the outfit selling the cuff links?

Sorry, I dont Dave. All I know is the website, the only folks in the hobby I know are you guys

Eva Braun's underwear.

Really.

Do they pass the smell test?

Is this one of those "self authenticating" collectables that speak their own story.

Smell test the most important part of this hobby :-)

Smells fishy to me...(oh. I realized just now how that sounds!)

Can we keep on the subject of cuff links ?

My first reaction would be negative as concerns the originality of the cuff links.

My reasoning is that the SS was all black and silver. From their flags to their informs and helmets to vehicle plates to daggers and swords, you never see gold or gold coloring.

Take a look for yourselves and post gold SS items here if you please.

The odds are against the links and many of the other items, use of gold for the SS is almost non existent. The one stand out to this rule appears to be Sepp Dietrich who utilized gold accents to uniforms and possibly retained gold jewelry, images and pieces are scattered around the web for him. Can't say I care for the links as Himmlers or as gahr pieces and many of the quotes that pertain to silver are derived from him personally and he was the driving force behind the SS ideology in terms that relate to culture.





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The "585" hallmark was also used on white gold jewelry. The cufflinks look to be heavily tarnished. Haven't seen 14kt gold (yellow or white) do that before.

Also, in any pictures of himmler that can be made out, it doesn't appear that he is wearing any gold jewelry. I wonder if he would wear gold cufflinks with a silver ring? (I'm no fashion expert...what do you guys think?)

ALL good observations and comments:
I agree,,the overall quality, them being gold,,,nothing adds up..

As far as these belonging to,,or Himmler wearing them,,,I'd vote no......

Do see now this thread. As Vern already stated, these cufflinks do look like tarnished silver. Tarnished silver sometimes also has a golden hue.
Either the style of the "hh" nor the "SS" nur the engraving Quality fits the standards of doubtless original items. Even more there are errors in the "hh" and also the "SS" is not in the certain form which I am used when looking at doubtless originals.
All in all not even close to something I would expect for such an item.
Regards,