UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories The Honor Ring Forum dak ring

hope these pics are better

maybe I'm a little critical but..

Italian hallmarks are well documented. Usually no grey areas.
1872 - 1933 , either a crowned head or content and maker mark.

1934 - 1944 , this is the area we are interested in. Always a lozenge with a code number and the fascist bundle. Accompanied by the content stamp.

1944 - 1968 , they deleted the fascist bundle.

These rings go for big money now. What I'm worried about is that they are just about making a near perfect HR. The HR is one of the more difficult rings to reproduce too! That maybe they got around to reproducing these.. This ring should have the content and fascist hallmarks in it. And, recently I've seen a couple with only a single letter in a circle [and vent hole!]. For 30 years I'm seeing the standard hallmarks and just this year this is happening..

Lets take this slow and analytical..Is there a vent hole anywhere on it?

yes there is a tiny hole in the top of the ring
i have had the arabic script translated by an arab speaking
store keeper he says it means DERNA or something like that.
do,nt know if it means anything. mike

OK hole is good!
and yes, Derna is an area I believe and is the 'words' usually on these rings if not a scene etc.

Photo credits thanks to WAF.

Did a few searches around. These type pattern rings always have the 34-44 marks..

Example of just about same ring:

if thats the case my ring must be a fake. mike

Mike,,not so fast... On the German Military FundForum there is a very similar ring!! Only has a bird hallmark.. Trying to get a link posted there..

Also have a email to a friend in Italy... And, a couple other things in the works,,hopefully by tonight I'll have more answers.

Also,,members , please. IF you have this type and pattern ring please post a few photos we can use for investigation purposes.. Also any other findings and comments welcome as always,,,thanks , G.

another:

"Hollow mounted" as we say here in Germany. For me no fake for sure - much to much work in making a fake ring.
I am in the "Like it-gang"!

I do not collect these type rings.... Isn't these a member here that has an example they can post photos of?

Many counterfeiters are retired professionals. Because these rings can bring $500. or even more on a good day its worth their time to work up 6 or 7 a year [great side money!].

The problem is the hallmark..or lack their of...We got to try and get to the bottm of this... IF we disregard the lack of proper hallmarks on a pattern that is known for its hallmark we're in trouble all across the board...

Lets try and identify this X / cross and 'bird'/dove hallmark on the FundForum example...

Here the link to a german forum with a very similar made africa-ring (not DAK related). The ring has too a little corious mark. Maybe interesting here

http://militaria-fundforum.de/showthread.php?t=497676

And .... maybe a statement of a craftsman would be helpfull here too.

- For those having trouble getting on to the FundForum here is a post I just made to them:


thanks Odal!

Well the ring on GDC is WW2 specific. The first ring shown here probably not military related but the identical construction type...

So is the GDC ring postwar? And is the ring here postwar?. Just taking this ring here by itself we would say postwar because it does not have the proper hallmarks for the WW2 period. That is fair and fine.

So what about the GDC ring? Do we use the same powers of deduction? Fascist Italian hallmarks are well documented. They seemed strict on its application, all pieces within the WW2 date got the hallmarks whether military or not.... The GDC ring doesn't have the Fascist hallmark, nor even a content mark.. A fake! [?]

Any members here have a similar ring to the GDC ring? of even the first ring shown here they can post photos of here?. It would be a great help I think...thanks,G.

Mike/bonny1,,
I'm a little disappointed no other examples were posted to help out,,sorry..

I've had a couple emails. What happens is a collector looks at this and immediately says its a fine original! Everything fine except the hallmarks. Any other country and for me it would be no problem.
I did get one response from Italy. Simply stating, ALL Fascist period jewelry had to ,and did have the required hallmarks..

I do like the ring. I don't like it not having regulation hallmarks. I'd rather see none than whats in there..

I can only tell you what I'd do myself.. These rings are out there. Patience and diligence and a perfectly hallmarked example will come your way,,and there will be no worries..

IF your happy with this example then that's all that matters...

I have this one with similar pattern but not exactly DAK. Have a look.

nice ring! Now there might not be a Palm tree or a Swas.on it but it has the proper wartime hallmarks!

Thanks for posting it..

By the way what is the market value of the ring I have posted ?

is there a posibility that the ring was not made in italy
or was that design only made there? the italion made ones of that design usually have a building
on one side or both, this ring has arabic writing on both sides
just a thought. mike

Gottleib:
Value is tough. Depends time of year being sold, where its being sold. Here on the Northeast coast of the US I've seen that ring going from $100. up to $300.

Mike,, a good theory..

I firmly believe that IF it was made during the war it would have the correct hallmarks. In that lozenge with the Fascist emblem are codes, one for the city, the other for maker. There is also usually a content stamp which is usually 800.

Could be that rings like yours are a German[?] [or other country] made copy of the ring made and sold wartime. Why there would be a need for this we don't know...OR, it is a excellent postwar copy possibly made with some of the original tooling [not unheard of!]....

thanks for your thoughts and replies, i will not throw it in
the junk box, i,ll put it in the maybe, could be box untill
some kind of proof one way or the other turns up. mike

In my opinion most of this DAK-rings are african made handworks. I would bet some have hallmarks, but otherwise some have not. Remember where they are made in wich times.

Perhaps this italian hallmarked rings are made too in northern africa and imported to Itala for selling. Or is there a sure evidence that this rings are made in italia?
Sorry this question, but this rings are not the stuff i collect.

that pattern ring was an Italian product... That hallmark not only has the Fascist emblem as I mentioned but a code for the city it was made in and code for the maker. These codes are listed on the silver hallmarks sites..
These few rings that have turned up recently with no Italian hallmark are either 2 things,,,a period copy,,or a postwar copy..

Gottleib,,you ring is 100% a wartime piece...

I am wondering if went hole on side of the ring is common for other Italian rings too? I have not seen went hole on side, always inside. I think it is more practical to make it inside - less dirt will be picked during wear, imho.

almost always on the Italian made rings,they are on the top of the cortouche..

Hello,

just checked mine as I have a couple of them. Both with standard marking bearing fascio and maker town code (at left) plus silver content marking......btw, hollow one without vent hole.

I do believe they did them postwar as well, probably with modified marking (without fascio).

Ric

hi have you anyway of backing up your postwar made theory
any examples to show

hi, is this what you mean with post war made?

I have heard of the 'good' fakes but have never seen one...

Problem is a fake doesn't have to be proven,,an authentic one does..

I wrote a few friends from Italy,,they all said the same,,they say an authentic example should have the hallmarks.. It is one of the parts of the criteria of authenticating them..

bonny1, I would rather see no hallmarks than a 'incorrect' one. I actually like your ring , hold on to it and maybe some new info will come along,,happens all the time!

HI, WOULD IT BE WORTH REOPENING THIS OLD THREAD IN LIGHT OF RECENT FINDINGS. MIKE

Actually, as an aside, one of the issues that gaspare has consistently mentioned, and I think it bears repeating here, is that unlike, let's say, the cuff title guys, to photograph a ring is extremely difficult, (especially with apples autofocus IMO) and therefore analysis of our hobby's niche element is tricky wince we are all making our judgements based solely on those pictures. I'd like to point out some good techniques...first of all, odal and gottlieb have got this down...members, find their ring pics and get some good ideas about not just setting but also watermarking your images. Mike, I really like the setting of the ring in clay/putty to begin this thread to get both the angled inner as well as outer details. I agree I'd like to look at the rings again, but I'd like to piggyback on this thread and see if we can share some techniques with photos as well... I have one piece of advice, if your ring is on a shiny or reflective surface, it's not that helpful...

Hi guys...I'm a little late in chiming in but better late than never. The point I am making is that only those rings made of 800 silver content were required to bear a hallmark. By hallmark, I am referring to the combination 800 silver stamp coupled with the lozenge shaped device with the Italian fasces, a number and city letters. You are not going to find those markings on non silver pieces. It was not a requirement by Italian law. It is the same way in most every major silver producing country.