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#296593 04/13/2014 02:22 AM
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Hi. I'm somewhat new to the forum, although I've been watching for some time. As a result of my first purchase, and after some thought, I have started my collection of dress daggers by focusing on WKC. I have a 2nd Luftwaffe, a 2nd Kriegsmarine, and a Heeres dagger. One thing I have been struggling with however is which variant of crossguard I have for the Heeres dagger. I'm pretty sure it is not the 3rd and final variant (are there only 3?) as it is clearly not a tomahawk beak. But what variant do I have? Is there somewhere that I can see some examples of each type for comparison?

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Dave1104 #296599 04/13/2014 04:42 AM
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Dave welcome looks like you may have an Eickhorn Type-2 crossguard on your dagger. The grip ferrule is an Eickhorn as well. Here is a link to Jonís excellent reference
Jons crossguard reference
And hereís one I am working on featuring daggers from my collection
Toms crossguard reference


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
WW2-Collector #296600 04/13/2014 04:49 AM
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As a side note concerning the WKC variations until very recently it was thought WKC only had 3 variations but a new guard was recently discovered (I call it the WKC 1.5) so they have four variations. The 1.5 is going to prove to be very difficult to find.


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
WW2-Collector #296622 04/13/2014 04:24 PM
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Tom,
Thanks for the clarification. It looks like I have a parts dagger, or possibly one where the workman ran out of parts for the crossguard and ferrule and borrowed from Eickhorn. Probably the former. I did recognize the ferrule as Eickhorn from Wittman's book but the nuances of the crossguards left me stumbling in confusion. The blade is great, and the handle is beautiful. I do have some question about the pommel as well, with 14 leaves, but looking more like a Type F from Wittman's book. Maybe I can find a WKC crossguard and ferrule (and maybe pommel) that are more representative, or perhaps I'll just leave it as is. Well, I have another WKC Heeres dagger coming that looks more promising, with the addition of a nice unit inscription. Live and learn. Thanks for your help.
Dave

Dave1104 #296628 04/13/2014 07:41 PM
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Hi Dave
I agree with Tom that it looks like you have an Eickhorn crossguard on your dagger but not a Type-2 but a Type-3 .
If you use the link to Jon's excellent reference it should be a Type-2, but if you take a look at this link http://www.heeresdolch.de/html/parierstangen.html
you will notice that it is a Type-3 crossguard.

Regards,
Jori

bandit #296630 04/13/2014 08:48 PM
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Jori I have to disagree IMO itís a Type-2 Eickhorn not a Type 3 While the page you referenced has allot of information some of the crossguards are out of order and some are not even listed.


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
WW2-Collector #296636 04/13/2014 11:09 PM
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In looking at the two web sites that Tom referred me to, I see that there is a difference in the feathers just above the legs. On the Type 2, there is only one set of "chevron-type" feathers above the legs. In the type 3, there are two sets of "chevron-type" feathers.If this means anything, then mine is a Type 3 crossguard. Do these feathers indicate anything, or am I nit-picking?
Dave

Dave1104 #296639 04/14/2014 12:39 AM
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Its a type 2 Eickhorn. You can take Toms advice to the bank.

The cut to the eagles chest weave pattern is an easy giveaway.

Degens #296652 04/14/2014 07:45 PM
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Hi Tom
You are probably right and I have no evidence to proof the oposite.
But how do you know which one is the right Type-2 because the Type-2 and Type-3 are used in the same period of time so how can you know which was the first type out of those two?


Cheers,
Jori

bandit #296661 04/14/2014 09:12 PM
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Jori
The first and best reference point is the different maker marks Eickhorn used. You know the type 2 came before the type 3 as you see the early double oval maker mark (1935) coupled with the type 2 guard but never with the type-3. You can apply the same theory to the type 4 you can assume itís the last for the same reason itís seen with the several of the last maker marks Eickhorn used in the period. The type 3 is a mix of the 2 & 4 it has the head of the 2 and the breast of the 4 which in its self places the 3 in the right chronological order. I hope that makes sense eek


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
WW2-Collector #296679 04/15/2014 03:46 AM
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Agree with Tom and Jon..unusual mix here..Kevin.


It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
WW2-Collector #296690 04/15/2014 07:25 PM
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Thank you Tom.
Great explanation ,it makes good sense.
Never too old to learn .

Dave1104 #298666 06/22/2014 07:15 PM
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I love that site showing the different crossguard variants. I have a Luft dagger without the crossguard by WKC. I think the scabbard might be SMF but I am not sure. I am not sure if the pommel & ferral is WKC either. If I post pics can you guys help me with it.

Thanks,
Rocky


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