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Banner removed, but not banned.

Update, Craig had not been on since August last year but dropped by for a look on March 30 ... 5 days ago.

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Disaster Capitalism is what it all sounds like. ~ Ian


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"Even if such objects cannot change the soul of man, at least they give him an identity." - Heinrich Himmler
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He needs to focus on what is on his plate,, right in front of him at the moment...picking apples by reading forum threads of who is saying what...should not be a top priority. His current issues at hand did not begin on any forum.


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Originally Posted By: Tanker
Well said!
Ron


Originally Posted By: Jim W
I love the way Rick always says that 3rd Reich items have bad karma and he won't deal with them, but then he deals with a guy who is desecrating Nazi graves.

Go figure.


I always love how Rick says that Nazi stuff "gives him he creeps" but I'll bet he calls CG and gives him the information on the owner and CG will give him a cut of the profits. Pawn Stars ******** anyway!

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Skynyrd Offline OP
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I have the feeling Rick isn't "creeped out" by Nazi stuff at all, rather he is creeped out by the prospect of the usual suspects starting a smear campaign against the show were he to buy and sell Nazi merchandise - Probably not a bad decision, if they could bend yahoo & ebay to their will they could easily do the same to pawn stars.
Saying that he won't deal in Nazi merchandise on the basis of some murky, unexplained ethical reasons is just a cheap way to get himself props from the PC crowd without making himself look too much like a lying hypocrite with the majority of viewers who know damn well he'd turn a profit on just about anything.
Why then would he associate the show with the likes of CG ? I doubt if 1 viewer out of 10,000 knows anything more about CG than they do of any of the other "experts", and there is no good way to find out unless you yourself are a collector.


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An area of particular interest to me (and my hope is to be able to incorporate this into my professional career) is researching the protection, repatriation, and looting/destruction of cultural heritage sites and artifacts.

I normally don't read this particular subforum but I only just today came across articles in the blogs I frequent about this contemptible - and thank God canceled! - television venture.

I can tell you though that at least one of these cultural preservation watchdog sites has sourced posts made by CG here on GDF. Link: http://conflictantiquities.wordpress.com...craig-gottlieb/

This excerpt comes from one of a series of articles written by Sam Hardy at the Conflict Antiquities blog about the whole CG and National Geographic scandal.:

Quote:
On the 18th of February 2014, Gottlieb posted a ‘ground found digged out [sic]‘ ring in the German Daggers forum, which the ‘owner [looter and seller]‘ had found in a battlefield near Szczecin in Poland. He continued to ‘find… new and new to buy’ antiquities in Poland at least up until the 6th of March.


The original text of the article includes links directly to Craig's GDC posts from which his quotes are taken.

So, I agree that GDC should and really needs to take steps to condemn CG's actions, and make it clear that this forum and its members in no way support or associate with such an unscrupulous individual.

T.

Last edited by Tiberius; 04/09/2014 04:17 AM.
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Tiberius...there is not one post on GD.com that agrees with what that Jerk CG is doing.

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Apologies, Sepp. I am confident that everyone on this forum thoroughly condemns CG's actions, and my post was not intended to imply that anyone here supports him.

I'm just pointing out that the blogger links to items posted by CG on this forum. These items are presented as further evidence of CG's questionable activities, especially his ability to find 'ground dug' objects; or at least deal with battlefield looters. When taken in conjunction with the article describing and condemning the TV show in question, it just might give the impression to outsiders that this site condones his unethical conduct.

The links provided by the blogger are to the posts below:

http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=294897#Post294897

http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=295308#Post295308

That being said, I leave any further actions to your discretion, and again I apologize for any confusion or offense I may have caused.

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Tiberius those links are not posts by Craig Gottlieb but another member……


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In that case, the blogger is mistaking GD member 'Gottlieb' as CG.

I'll bow out of this thread, then, since I seem to have gotten so many things wrong. Apologies and carry on.

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Skynyrd Offline OP
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Easily understandable oversight, good you pointed it out and perhaps the blogger will make the necessary corrections.

I don't think ground dug relics should be condemned carte blanche at all ... I am an avid metal detectorist and have been for around 8 years. Searching for lost history and valuables is fascinating and consuming. I don't live in an area likely to have any war dead, but if I did that would be something I would have to deal with. I would like to think that I would handle it in a professional, respectful manner if I came across a grave site, and I'm sure I would.
The dealing is ground dug military relics I also think should not be wholly condemned. No way to determine ratios, but I think its safe to say a fair portion or relics were not dug in proximity to a pile of bones, many were lost/dumped/discarded and have no connection to any disrespect for a fallen soldier.
Some are, these matters should be taken on a case by case basis.


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You will not see Nazi stuff on Antiques Roadshow either.
Which is a kinda good thing.
Who wants some clown saying that dress bayonet(plain blade) is worth $1000.00 !!

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Is the sin of being a digger any worse than paying some poor old grannie pennies on the dollar for her late husband’s war souvenirs in a “motel buy”?

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Skynyrd Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: BAMA
Is the sin of being a digger any worse than paying some poor old grannie pennies on the dollar for her late husband’s war souvenirs in a “motel buy”?


I think that carelessly pillaging a fallen soldiers grave is worse than lowballing a granny on Nazi relics, yes.
I don't even see how the 2 are remotely comparable other than they both require someone with a lack of scruples. If someone accepts a ridiculously low offer on anything, thats on them.


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Bama's point is that in the one case the digger is robbing the grave and in the second case the buyer is robbing both the grave and the widow.

However, their comparison is with the lack of scruples and morals.

Question, How is a widow suppose to know the value of the husbands war trophies unless someone tells her. If a trusting widow believes the buyer as to the real value, are you really going to blame the widow.

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Jim, then the answer is what's our education worth, isn't it?


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Skynyrd Offline OP
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Carelessly ransacking a war grave site with the pretext of "digging for history" is particularly morbid and unethical, much more so than lowballing a granny.
Most grannies, by definition, have sons and grandsons whom they could in most cases call to work out an appraisal. With the advent of the internet, finding a ballpark value is easy even for a complete novice, so there is not much excuse to let yourself get swindled.
Both have greed as the prime motivating factor, both takes a slimeball to pull off, but the comparison ends there IMO.


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Ron, I am not sure what your answer means, but to clarify my thoughts on Hotel buys: I think hotel buys are both legitimate and a good way to bring relics to the surface. If a buyer offers 50% of the retail value, I think that is a fair offer. It is a business. That is where the legitimate buyer and his or her education comes into it. And the 50% is just an estimate. Most businesses have a similar cost of goods.

This is different than the discussion point. It is when the buyer offers the trusting widow 10 cents on the dollar and then brags about it where I see an issue.

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I agree with Jim W.
I also hate to see when folks get on the forum and brag how they "scored or snagged" a collectable. I just hate those phrases. Nothing wrong with being proud of purchase but just don't over brag how you " got over" on someone! Strictly my opinion only. Ron


Originally Posted By: Jim W
Ron, I am not sure what your answer means, but to clarify my thoughts on Hotel buys: I think hotel buys are both legitimate and a good way to bring relics to the surface. If a buyer offers 50% of the retail value, I think that is a fair offer. It is a business. That is where the legitimate buyer and his or her education comes into it. And the 50% is just an estimate. Most businesses have a similar cost of goods.

This is different than the discussion point. It is when the buyer offers the trusting widow 10 cents on the dollar and then brags about it where I see an issue.




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2 things on diggers:

One,,Morals?,,. Do you think the Ukrainian whos had their grandparents tortured ,then hung, homes or complete village burned down. Had family members dragged away for slave labor, some never to be seen again,,thinks about grave robbing / battle field digs being wrong?!?

Two, In the early to mid 1990s. It was the professional diggers who dug from maps, grids. Recorded dog tags, and were respectful to the remains. If it wasn't for them many 100s of German families wouldn't know about their MIA family members resting spot.

Saw a bit on CGs digging party.. Ignorant , greed driven, despicable!

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Skynyrd Offline OP
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Gaspare, actual Ukrainians or any relative of someone who suffered/died via German aggression might get more of a pass, might not be expected to show respect for the remains of a fallen German soldier - But if they are so repulsed and aggrieved after all of these years, I would also expect them not to want to greedily reap a profit from relics of the evil exterminators, really tough to have it both ways here. Also, the same logic should apply to Stalins mass killers, who I understand racked up a head count not far off from Hitlers [probably much more in Ukraine].
CG does in fact use a variation of this logic in his activities, he almost always nonchalantly brings up his Jewish ancestry in any press releases - As if greed and self promotion aren't any factors in his pursuits, but rather subtle revenge.

Your 2nd point, obviously not many would have any problem with a professional, respectful dig. It was the over the top sensationalism, starting with the very title of the proposed show, that made waves - And Craig carelessly yanking bones out of the ground just added to the disdain.

Last edited by Skynyrd; 04/13/2014 08:28 PM.

Doug
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(CG does in fact use a variation of this logic in his activities, he almost always nonchalantly brings up his Jewish ancestry in any press releases - As if greed and self promotion aren't any factors in his pursuits, but rather subtle revenge.)
Many years ago a family member gave me a hard time for having a gold plated Nazi sword and said I should be ashamed of myself because someones gold teeth were used to plate the sword fittings. I simply told him I bought the sword from a Jewish seller and that shut him up.

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90, 91 when Ukraine became independent it happened so quick they didn't even have time to print up their money!, Utilities weren't set up, food deliveries, who was paying who, etc. They were broke and hungry.

Most in the early days had to barter to eat.. 1st thing my wifes cousins did were to get some old maps shovels,metal detectors and hit the battle fields [not grave yards]. They survived those early years and what the ground gave up helped...
CG as you guys all mentioned was a greed and need to be accepted by being famous [?] Bad boy...........

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Skynyrd Offline OP
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Craig has made the National Enquirer !
My GF subscribes to the magazine and once in a blue moon I'll thumb through it, the April 28 edition has a scathing article on the grave diggers thing ... Not much of a typer so I'll just preview the title and 1st paragraph of the article:

"PAWN STAR" IS A NAZI GRAVE ROBBER
Outrage over looting AS BODIES ARE DUG UP

A guest on the popular "Pawn Stars" series is embroiled in a heated international scandal as he comes under blistering attack for being a grave robber.
A team of amateur "diggers" - led by Craig Gottlieb, one of the experts who frequently appears on "Pawn Stars" - is being called to task by scientists for alleged looting and desecration of World War 2 graves.


Doug
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Why don't you write to the National Geographic channel and that pawn shop and complain?

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Skynyrd Offline OP
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Who me ?
I barely watch any TV, can't say that CG being a guest expert on pawn stars bothers me in the least. Merely passing on a relevant, on topic development for those interested, don't see why you are peeved by that.
That said, it would seem pretty likely that his days on pawn stars are numbered, given the lead characters professed disdain for Nazi relics.


Doug
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Originally Posted By: Skynyrd

"PAWN STAR" IS A NAZI GRAVE ROBBER
Outrage over looting AS BODIES ARE DUG UP

A guest on the popular "Pawn Stars" series is embroiled in a heated international scandal as he comes under blistering attack for being a grave robber.
A team of amateur "diggers" - led by Craig Gottlieb, one of the experts who frequently appears on "Pawn Stars" - is being called to task by scientists for alleged looting and desecration of World War 2 graves.



Gee, I wonder if Rick of Pawn Stars would be 'Creeped-Out' to find out that one of his 'experts' is NAZI grave robbing for fun and profit?
Sounds like this Breaking Story will have legs.



.

Last edited by Serge (aka Wagner); 04/21/2014 01:53 AM.
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Hot off the check-out magazine rack.

WOW! I don't think Rick is going to like this. Anyone else ?


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Craig Gottlieb is a real POS Honest to God

Sepp

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Originally Posted By: Serge (aka Wagner)


CG has officially reached the end of his career IMO...

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For all the folks/forums that took up for him and banned members, (like me) when we spoke out against him and his shady business practices have now seen the light!
Ron

Last edited by Tanker; 04/22/2014 02:11 AM.
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Skynyrd Offline OP
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No doubt CG will be looking into a libel suit as his only option to counter this negative publicity, I don't like his odds.
The Enquirer has been sued so many times in the past that most of their stories are pretty well researched and factual.


Doug
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"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." - Einstein

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"Gottlieb – an ex-Marine and expert in Nazi-era artifacts –"
He will love this! Someone actually,finally calling him a 'expert' grin wink

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I am ashamed to call him a former Marine...Marines put people in their graves not dig them up

Sepp

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"there is no such thing as bad publicity-except for your own obituary"

Brendan Behan-(He was an Irish poet, dramatist, poet, novelist,)


FUR EHR' UND PFLICHT BIS HERZ UND KLINGE BRICHT
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Skynyrd Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Paul
"there is no such thing as bad publicity-except for your own obituary"



May be true the majority of times, being publicized as a grave robber in a national tabloid, not so sure.
Only he knows what damage if any has been done ,, If he continues to be one of Ricks call boys on pawn stars, we'll know the damage was minimal.


Doug
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Now a international 'star' with a real period 'ground dug' skull.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDwQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-2591894%2FFury-National-Geographic-channel-historians-digging-Second-World-War-graves.html&ei=WeZZU7a1O8e2yAS__IHQDw&usg=AFQjCNHxkBF3WfuKML1x83z2HDXEy2_Sww&bvm=bv.65397613,d.aWw





Last edited by Serge (aka Wagner); 04/25/2014 05:38 AM. Reason: linking problems
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Can I get a little link-up help ?


Last edited by Serge (aka Wagner); 04/25/2014 06:28 AM.
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