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I AGREE 100% with Gaspare

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Hear hear Gaspare!


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"Even if such objects cannot change the soul of man, at least they give him an identity." - Heinrich Himmler
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Of course I completely agree with Gaspare. Being "scared" of lawyers is hilarious by the way. Let it be known that average joe collector will not purchase from dishonest dealers. Build a good reputation and be honest.... Most would pay a premium for your items. Remember bad news travels lightning fast, being an accessory to the lie ( fake ) is just as bad in my book Being helpful to new collectors will go far as well. Being tired of helping new collectors is one thing. But commenting about it is another.

sharing information and mentoring to new collectors should be part of the hobby, especially for it to grow and continue on. Let's see how many young ( under 30) collectors are at the SOS this year.

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Well I find owning my own business lawyers can work with you and against you. And can just plain cost a ton of money to make sure you are covered.. (That is of course if you are like me and Serge and Have something to loose.)I personally do know some of the items and scams that are out there. What Serge has said about certain person or persons is not surprising as it is nothing new at all. It is just sad that it has soured many old and new collectors. (expert all knowing and seeing)has done. As a old English dagger Author Fred Stephens called them the (Cartel of Shysters) has hurt the collecting hobby. What Serge has said is just the very tip of a very nasty Ice berg. In my personal experience with Serge at shows he is always ready to help with any questions or will point collectors in the right direction to find the best answers... And you sure do not have to buy from him to get this treatment. I'm sure Serge is very frustrated as I get with this crap when openly inferior collectibles are being sold or auctioned as original or in the opinion of the all knowing and all seeing expert it is original so there for it is (if that makes any sense!!) So guys pull your heads out of the sand. Buy the item!!!! always!!! not the person or all the spin doctor crap behind it or him......Regards: James

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I remember that **Dolos** project and the threats.
Had to be very careful when posting or commenting on that site,you would get all kinds of weird threats without really being a threat, if you know what I am trying to say. I thought Dolos was a good thing,

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All I can say is that when I have listened to the advice given me by James or by Serge, I have never gone wrong. I have, however, been burned a couple of times when I ignored their words.

So, my advice to all of you is... Listen to what James and Serge have to say, they do not have any dogs in this race and are only doing their best to help all of us.

The 'Shyster Cartel' is out there and it is more connected and way stronger than you can imagine. I know some very knowledgeable and respected dealer/collectors out there who are very reluctant to openly contradict some of the well know shysters.

John


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That "dolos" thing was potentially a good thing, seemed to be run by some shady double dealing jokers who are likely reading this now - I guess the fact that it lasted all of 2 months and its membership barely exceeded a dozen speaks louder than words.


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Who actually owned or ran Dolos? Is that a big secret?

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John Z
Who are these knowledgeable dealer/ collectors you speak of that are reluctant to openly contradict the well known shysters?


Wanted: German Naval Edged Weapons and Related Accouterments
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I agree. Either say who is behind this stuff / these frauds or don't post them at all mad

Serge ??

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Sorry, guys, but if I 'out' any of them, they will not give me any unbiased advice in the future.

I have had several experiences at shows, for example, where I am told certain things about daggers with the proviso that I not name names back to the owner.

I have also had situations where I told a dealer that I was going to show one of their items to another to get an opinion and I found that the first dealer called the second one to 'prime' what he had to say to me. I was there when the phone call came in... if I blabbed it all to you, would I be trusted in the future.. I think not.

Every dealer that I have dealt with has had at some point in time something dodgy on their table or their site. That is a fact. And, that isn't the issue here, it is how the dealer had dealt with these problems. I have returned items to the two Toms, for example, with no questions asked. I have had to fight with Craig and enlist support to get him to take back something that was generally considered to be wrong.

That is as far as I go here, Dave.

John


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Sigh............Well this sure has cleared things up and filled me with confidence on buying at the SOS. What a drama.....

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The thread starter was 'Craig Gottlied expelled from WAF'. Here's the thread on WAF:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=717482

Anyone can read it. also, anyone can do thread/post searches, except here, as many of the older ones don't exist anymore.
All it takes is a little bit of curiosity and a willingness to do a little research and you can make your own opinion rather than believing in someone elses. What can be better?

Some people (and their items) are always in controversy, while others are not. How do they actually handle returns? Do they refund right away 100%, or do they put you through the 'buddy' grinder? Do they have a 'restocking fee' ?
The guys with integrity always give a refund (unless there is a genuine issue, in which case they usually refund it anyway). They have no 'restocking' fee nor 'Store Credit' balony.

I have already stated my views and observations here of why I don't elect to go 'ALL IN' into the mud hole. Some may agree, some disagree. However, I won't be opening up the SS (Scams and Scandals) book of the hobby here, I have no desire to. Those that have a interest can get a good idea doing a little bit of keyboard work themselves. If a little bit of work is too much, well then...you really were not that interested anyway.

Now at this moment, I can't think of a better parting line than: You shall know them by the fruits they bare. smile

Oh, here's one more newbie hint: If a seller tells you their artifact is so beyond doubt original that it's "self-authenticating" - RUN!-DON'T WALK!

Serge

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I think Serge has summed it up nicely.


Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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Skynyrd Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Dave Hohaus
Who actually owned or ran Dolos? Is that a big secret?


As I recall, he/they tried to portray themselves as victims of heavy handed WAF admin, and vowed to set the record straight on numerous shady dealers and dealings tied into the WAF hierarchy and top dealers including CG ,, And yes, he/they tried to be as mysterious as possible as to their identity.
In my opinion the whole thing was a false flag, and the alleged righteous victims were exactly who they claimed to be against. I joined there and started to ruffle a few feathers with posts that what I thought were right in line with their claimed goals, I got pm's from the admin there issuing bland threats and also info that only someone who was a mod/admin at WAF would know ... That led me to post the whole thing threats and all right in the open, whereupon I was banned and all my posts were deleted, and the whole thing folded weeks later.
So I don't know what was up with that, whatever the case it didn't seem to go as planned by whoever started it.

Last edited by Skynyrd; 02/22/2014 07:14 AM.

Doug
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Here is the original thread on Dolos. Interesting reading:

http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/ubbthread...2733#Post252733

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FYI it folded after serious death threats where made towards a couple folks, one who had a family. From what I know a guy named PROSPER KEATING played some kind of role in its ending

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you guys need to get off your computers and go to the shows.you will make friends there and you will help each other out.

then you will also get to meet the dealers that are there and you and your friends can decide what is good and what is bad.

thats called networking you just can't do that at home on the computer and learn who the bad guy are.you need to find out for your self by going to the shows.

dave you go to the max every year you know who most of the guys are that are selling fakes.if you don't then shame on you.

iv'e been on this forum for alot of years now and i read it almost every day.i don't say much because i have seen most of the members that new what they were talking about.

take flack from the guys that have been here two weeks and now the new expets. i guess it will be a year or so before i say anything again.


BOB C
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Kriegsmarine daggers and Samurai swords
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Bob...I agree. Networking and going to shows is a must if your serious about collecting. If I see a piece im not sure about. I will e mail or message some of the people I have meet and trust at shows or from the military sites.


Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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Although I still collect on a limited basis (I'm more into buying/selling 5.0 fox bodies)I will from time to time drop in and read the latest news. I've noticed this thread on Craig G. and have read some things about him on other forums. Has he been banned from GDC? I've clicked on his advertisement banner here and the link is inactive. Any one able to tell me why?

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Rick...That link has never worked (or I could never get it to work). I don't think he has been banned but im not sure. If you go to advertising on the home page and click it, his banner is there and that link works.


Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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I look around MAX and the local shows with interest. It is always amazing the stuff that vets brought back. As far as my area of competence, which are SA/SS/NSKK model 1933 daggers. I see poorly maintained daggers, overly cleaned ones, buggered screws, badly repaired ones, etc, but no outright fakes. Those I see on internet sites like 3-2-1 or items posted here.

With Army/Navy/Luft/HJ, I can recognize the blatant fakes, but not much more. As the rest of the offerings like rings, cloth, headgear, flags, I would not have a clue unless it says "made in China".

Rick - Craig has not signed on since August of 2013. I will check out that link.

Dave

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Fixed the link wink


[Linked Image from germandaggers.com]
Visit us at www.GermanDaggers.com
Contact me at Vern@GermanDaggers.com
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Originally Posted By: Skynyrd
Originally Posted By: Dave Hohaus
Who actually owned or ran Dolos? Is that a big secret?


As I recall, he/they tried to portray themselves as victims of heavy handed WAF admin, and vowed to set the record straight on numerous shady dealers and dealings tied into the WAF hierarchy and top dealers including CG ,, And yes, he/they tried to be as mysterious as possible as to their identity.
In my opinion the whole thing was a false flag, and the alleged righteous victims were exactly who they claimed to be against. I joined there and started to ruffle a few feathers with posts that what I thought were right in line with their claimed goals, I got pm's from the admin there issuing bland threats and also info that only someone who was a mod/admin at WAF would know ... That led me to post the whole thing threats and all right in the open, whereupon I was banned and all my posts were deleted, and the whole thing folded weeks later.
So I don't know what was up with that, whatever the case it didn't seem to go as planned by whoever started it.

Interesting FYI Crag told me he notified WAF Admin that he was resigning their. And WAF decided to up him one by publicly saying he was expelled.

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Skynyrd Offline OP
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Lol, "You can't quit ! ,, Why not ? ,, Because YOU'RE FIRED !"

Seems to me that he will be better off in the long run without the sustained drama that the mention of his name attracts there, aside from a small clique of fanboys he is thoroughly tarnished ,,, But that was always balanced out against his apparent lust for attention, only he knows if it will be a good tradeoff.

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Doug
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Someone should take and post pictures of his SOS tables.

At MAX, he had one of those big $$ islands in the main concourse but as of Saturday noon I did not see any display cases.

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he usually has a big set up at the SOS...

Well he always wanted to be one of the big boys [dealers] . Do any of you see ANY of the big dealers participate on any of the forums?? , NO.

This is my own personal theory:

They are not on the forums because they offer so many items they can't possibly authenticate them all, don't care anymore and / or ,,eventually the well gets low and they go to the dark side.
Whats that?!,,that's occasionally offering excellent fakes. IF they get caught they talk their way out or put the blame on a scapegoat.
IF they stay on the forums they would get cut to ribbons , so its better to not participate at all...

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Originally Posted By: Gaspare
he usually has a big set up at the SOS...

Well he always wanted to be one of the big boys [dealers] . Do any of you see ANY of the big dealers participate on any of the forums?? , NO.

This is my own personal theory:

They are not on the forums because they offer so many items they can't possibly authenticate them all, don't care anymore and / or ,,eventually the well gets low and they go to the dark side.
Whats that?!,,that's occasionally offering excellent fakes. IF they get caught they talk their way out or put the blame on a scapegoat.
IF they stay on the forums they would get cut to ribbons , so its better to not participate at all...





Well said Gaspare !!

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Will second that !

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I concur with Gaspare's statement.

The reality is if your just amount making the most money you can in the militaria business, it's in the very high-end fakes. Diamond awards, bird-head daggers, Damascus anything, Hitler this and a Himmler that.
Let's face it Craig has had a credibility issue with many veteran collectors for years. His questionable finds became more rarer than the last one, and he was getting chewed up on almost everyone one. Be it a Mengele's passport or a Damascus SS degen, etc. etc.
The heat got so much that it was Craig who bailed out of the forums because they were becoming 'bad for 'business'.

WAF management, just to make sure he wouldn't be back...slammed the door hard behind him with a 'expulsion'. However it's true, The History Hunter didn't need any of this anymore, and it just couldn't get explained away a umpteenth time.

According to Craig; the '20 bullies' made him leave. Really? HA ! laugh

Here is Craig's last post on WAF. In his own words.

---------------

>>"

When I started Germandaggers.com in 1999 (and shortly thereafter, became one of the earlier members of WAF), I had a vision to create (and in the case of WAF) participate in a community of dealers and collectors who could co-exist to mutual benefit … sharing knowledge and experience for the good of the hobby, while bringing to light sellers (collectors and dealers) who knowingly and consistently sold fakes outside the boundaries of honest mistakes. Along the way, I have owned some great pieces, made a lot of money, made many friends, but many enemies. Bruce Petrin, Brant Murphy ... people that newbies here won't ever know or remember.


Looking back more than 13 years, I can tell you having been on all sides, I believe a few apples have finally begun to spoil it for me. In my view forums started small (and manageable) but grew so large that effective FREE moderation became challenging. God bless the moderators who give their free time and do their best, but there is only so much one can do, and I understand that.


When a dealer like myself who has a solid record of selling THOUSANDS of authentic artifacts over more than a decade of full-time business, who has a rock-solid guarantee, (mixed in with a few items that were questioned by some, but NEVER ever sold to or retained by a collector) can be pushed around by a room filled with a small but loud contingent of bullies, and then be called out for being absent from the discussion for a few days (in this case, due to sickness and having just sold over 200 artifacts in one days) … the forum begins to resemble an elementary school playground. Nobody will ever remember the collector I tracked down about a "rounder" Knight's Cross years after they were proven questionable, in order to give a refund plus interest. They'll only remember the fiasco surrounding a Oakleaf that was deemed authentic by every expert, but called out by a few "forum Jockeys" as questionable.


I have asked myself this afternoon whether it’s worthwhile to continue to take the abuse, innuendo, anonymous bravado, “computer courage,” rudeness, and childish, misdirected wit (admittedly, amidst a bunch of good guys, most of whom are too busy to involve themselves with threads like this), or just bow out like just about EVERY full-time dealer (and many, but certainly not all, serious collectors) has. Well, I can honestly say, that when it’s a choice between a) spending extra quality time with my family, picking my son up from school without lingering feelings of anger and resentment, and enjoying life … while at the same time providing reliable service to the collector, or b) running back to the forum every 10 seconds to answer one of 20 bullies in the room, the choice is abundantly clear … I choose the former." <<

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Craig has some valid points, there are far too many blowhards on the internet and often a pack mentality does tend to prevail in heated threads ,,, Though of course, he brought much of it on himself.
If he really feels that way then he should be a happy camper, damage is more to his ego than anything else.


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Doug,

You are correct about Craig's valid points. My observation after 13½ years here is that there is a core of mostly anonymous guys here and other on forums who like to attack dealers or sometimes successful collectors. This ties in with Gaspare's post above.


Gaspare,
When the GDC started, many forums moderated by well known dealers. Most of the dealers left by the end of 2001, but not for the reason you suggest. They left because of the anonymous turkeys who felt they had to sabotage or discredit everything these guys said. It was not worth the dealers time and reputation to argue with them. They were gone by the time you signed up in mid-2002, so you did not get to see this as it happened.

Dave

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I read Craig's reply and all I can say and offer is this. I liked Craig. I did good business with him. I purchased from him. Not in the six figures but in the high teens, which was more than I EVER spent with those dealers whom I respected. Chuck Scaglione, John Casino, Paul Hogle, Bill Shea, Gerard Stezelberger, Bob Iqbal, Tom Johnson, Bruce Hermann, Peter Whammond, Martin Stiles. These are some of the GOOD guys in my opinion. I know them all, have dealt with them all, have had some in my home and have been in some of their homes. Never a bad deal. I know some will have their detractors but as long as we are "friends" and do good business I do not entertain the gossip. I was this way with Craig..I liked him. I sold him some "good stuff" and Craig was never cheap and always paid...Then there were three "purchases" made by me in a row that were less than what they were advertised to be. These left me feeling a little awkward but Craig always made good. Then there was the "ring fiasco" that, in my opinion could have been handled so much better. Suddenly I became the "bad guy" I started to question everything and listened to my "collector and dealer friends" who brought me up to speed on the state of Craig's reputation. I am sorry that things went this way as I never like having a falling out with someone with whom I once was "friendly" I couldn't count Craig as a friend but I did like him. Now I don't factor as a meaningful purchaser in the over all realm of things but every collector who is a customer should be treated decently. All of the fellows that I have mentioned have both sold to me and purchased from me. I am not a dealer but at 48 have been active in the German hobby since 1982 when I first began selling and buying. I have sold to 100s of collectors in Europe, Canada and within the US.I have never had one somplaint or had one item returned, even though I sell everything with a full unconditional guarantee!!!! I got beaten up on this forum for what one seller said....I backed out of a deal. This was untrue but Dave, you made a determination based on one comment and on not even knowing me!!!! and my reputation was attacked!!! Craig has an extensive history now....I will not attack him or jump on the "bash Craig bandwagon", but I will not feel empathy or sympathy. He made his bed and has no one to blame but himself. Even his last posting smacks of self pity and arrogance and seems to blame everyone else. It is so much easier to say that you made a mistake.. It is too bad that one of the guys that we thought would bring a breath of fresh air to the hobby seems to have done just the opposite. Cheers Ryan S

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There are still some big name dealers that are members of or who post on various forums. Ron Weinand comes to mind here on GDC. Ron is a seasoned dealer/collector, who, in my opinion does not hide or run from controversial comments made by the collecting community. Craig and Houston may not post anymore or moderate, I don't know, but they have both been accused of some shady business and both have posted similar responses. People make mistakes. Peter Whammond on Collectors Guild has made mistakes. I remember an Allgemeine mantel brought to my home that was purchased for nearly $10,000 that turned out to be totally fake. I exposed it and Derek Chapman, who was also present at my home seconded it. Daryl Pajot, ex GDC member was also present and agreed. Peter was humble and thanked us for the info. He wants to learn. He is not arrogant nor did he go on the attack. Money cheerfully refunded. The collector/customer was not called "nuts" or cursed at or other wise made to feel it was his fault. If you are an honest dealer you will survive. Your reputation may not survive un scathed but your moral character will!!!! One thing I have learned that no matter how decent and reputable the dealer,there is always someone in this hobby that has a negative story or thing to say, deserved or otherwise.It is all in how one deals with and responds to these "challenges" that matters. cheers, Ryan

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Skynyrd Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Dave Hohaus
Doug,

You are correct about Craig's valid points. My observation after 13½ years here is that there is a core of mostly anonymous guys here and other on forums who like to attack dealers or sometimes successful collectors. This ties in with Gaspare's post above.

Dave


That is true, and you no doubt have seen more than me and most others over the years, but the flip side of that is often they do bring up valid points themselves that otherwise would not get addressed, anonymous or not ,, Then of course, other times they have a vindictive mentality and bring into question any move their target may make, becomes stalkers if you will..
As far as the anonymous thing, yeah I guess it can be a factor when someone can slam someone else without any fear of repercussions to themselves in real life, a built up online persona can be a powerful thing.
I never thought much about it myself, when I first started messing around on the internet in the late 90's it was the norm to use nym's, almost no one posted under their real name ,,,And that habit stuck, never crossed my mind to have a screen name of "Doug Kramer" ,,, I like Lynyrd Skynyrd so that worked for me, but it wasn't out of some perceived fear that I chose a goofy nym, just force of habit.

We really saw the wild west of forums I think, things have settled down a bit, and many forums now require a serious if not an identifying name, and I agree with that trend.
I wouldn't say anything on a forum that I wouldn't say to someone face to face and I expect the same, when I get the feeling that someone is engaging in anonymous internet bravado it highly annoys me ,, And for a guy like Craig, that must go 10x. I don't feel sorry for the guy at all, but I never thought he was all bad with a black heart - He is a product of his yesterdays like anyone else, and sometimes those catch up with you.


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It is still his source of income, so I'm sure he will be back around. I'm looking forward to going to the SOS. I can't wait to see everybody's great collections. I hope Craig is there. I will look at his collection just as much as I will look at everybody else's. Real or fake, I still enjoy the history of the items. A fake hat, dagger, whatever. Just like going to the wax museum. It's not Elvis, but made to look just like the real thing. With my knowledge, everything is going to look real....

Of course I won't be buying a thing. ( I will be the big guy taking as many pictures as possible ( as long as the collectors/dealers allow). Until I put in many years of studying what is real and what is fake, I will enjoy looking at repros and authentic items. Of course the real ones do bring more excitement on who May have owned it, where it has been etc....rather than getting caught up with the negativity and garbage, this will be like going to a WWII , Third Reich, etc.. "Smithsonian"

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Originally Posted By: DJDR
It is still his source of income, so I'm sure he will be back around. I'm looking forward to going to the SOS. I can't wait to see everybody's great collections. I hope Craig is there. I will look at his collection just as much as I will look at everybody else's. Real or fake, I still enjoy the history of the items. A fake hat, dagger, whatever. Just like going to the wax museum. It's not Elvis, but made to look just like the real thing. With my knowledge, everything is going to look real....

Of course I won't be buying a thing. ( I will be the big guy taking as many pictures as possible ( as long as the collectors/dealers allow). Until I put in many years of studying what is real and what is fake, I will enjoy looking at repros and authentic items. Of course the real ones do bring more excitement on who May have owned it, where it has been etc....rather than getting caught up with the negativity and garbage, this will be like going to a WWII , Third Reich, etc.. "Smithsonian"


I wouldn’t expect to see to many collections the merchandise brought is for sale. Sure a guy may bring a piece or two for show and tell but I don’t know any one who displays their collection at the SOS. But don’t be disappointed you will see plenty of great stuff good and bad it’s the super bowl of shows! You guys have a safe trip and see you at the show.


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Dave , the site has had a few problems over the years. Registered 2002?,,was on a few years before that,,Lets see,,when I came on Gary Woods and Bob Hritz were the SS Mods, then Bob left and we had Tony Barto! And of course Donny Boyle was the Honor Ring Mod..

Anyway,,,yes your right Mods/Dealers were different back then. So was our hobby too.

It evolved from the Mods being the last [and only] word. Even though just supposed to be a moderator they were also expected to be the experts! , and most were!

Most mods/dealers were infallible, respected! , Man what a difference between now and back then..

Back then,,they freely gave good advice participated, authenticated ,etc. Now,,,defensive, non participants with the only advice is to buy their self authenticating items! crazy wink

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And just who are you talking about, Gaspare?

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good question Dave.

I do not know many moderators, but I know I do not have but a handful of items for sale on a different web site and I certainly do not refer people there. I do not think I have ever seen Wotan offer anything for sale or do anything but give honest advice and then take abuse for it. Which Dave hit upon and is the real stated reason moderators left. They were tired of telling newbies the truth then suffering insults.

But, Dave, Gaspere has been promoting a book he has written. I am not sure if Gaspere is setting himself up as the all knowing guru of rings, that is up to him to state.

But, if you want to insult every moderator on this web site, Gaspere, then maybe it is time to light the torches and get the pitch fork out.

Is there anyone on these boards that is pushing their items?

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