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#293754 01/13/2014 08:48 PM
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Vern Online Content OP
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I came across a list of pistol models and numbers issued/used by the German military. These were made in Germany, supplied through contract with their allies, or produced under German supervision in occupied countries. After digging up photos of the pistols, I thought it would make an interesting thread wink


Astra_300.jpg (135.45 KB, 318 downloads)
Astra_400.jpg (125.67 KB, 318 downloads)
Astra_600.jpg (138.05 KB, 320 downloads)
Astra_900.jpg (120.91 KB, 320 downloads)
Dreyse_1907.jpg (117.3 KB, 321 downloads)
FEG 37M.jpg (114.79 KB, 319 downloads)
Luger P08.jpg (136.49 KB, 320 downloads)
Mauser 1934.jpg (142.12 KB, 321 downloads)
Mauser HSC.jpg (138.42 KB, 317 downloads)
Browning_P35.jpg (163.27 KB, 222 downloads)
Last edited by Vern; 01/16/2014 07:55 PM.

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Continued....

Mauser C96.jpg (146.81 KB, 316 downloads)
Radom wz 35.jpg (146.6 KB, 318 downloads)
Sauer 38H.jpg (112.74 KB, 315 downloads)
Star Model B.jpg (118.07 KB, 315 downloads)
Steyr M1912.JPG (150.47 KB, 315 downloads)
Walther P38.jpg (150.03 KB, 311 downloads)
Walther PP.jpg (125.85 KB, 310 downloads)
Walther PPK.jpg (164.58 KB, 308 downloads)

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hi vern
great pictures of these most sort after third reich pistols when germans took over most of the countrys they had gun factorys . poland/czechoslovakia/hungary/etc the astra 600 i have one the model 1907 dryse 32 auto i have one hungarian famuru one with capture papers . lugers a few including black widow mauser 1934 kreigsmarine eagle marked mauser. army hsc pistol marked with ss lightning bolts cut in to the frame sold that last year long story on that one . sauer 38 h have a few p-38s to many just bought two of them one unfired condition w/holster 1944 man what a cherry has late war blueing wash looks like purplish not blue . last ppks a few this kid me has nothing much to play with right vern this has turned out to be a very intresting postings on weapons here in a very long time hey guys dont stop now best andy militarynut

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I think the 1935 Beretta should also be included on this list. cool

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Vern Online Content OP
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Correct, Don. The 1935 Beretta was made for their forces after the German takeover in 1944-45. It wasn't on the original list I got but I'll dig up the photos and add it wink Thanks for the info! Andy, sounds like we could do this list just using your goodies wink


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A late addition, made under German supervision in 1944-45.

Beretta 1935.jpg (118 KB, 279 downloads)

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hi vern
you have me laughing i all most made your whole list but sold some off thru the years so no cigars for me . also i have two 1935 model beretta i believe both are dated 1944 one is a 380 call in not that good condition the outher 32 auto call is close to 98 percent cond. i will have a decent crop of war time third reich pistols and holsters to sell at the big candy shop sos in kentucky next month should be a dynimite show . don boyle ss honor ring man will be at my tables signing ring certifications so if any one needs a ring cert say hello come on down bring the coffee best andy militarynut

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Vern Online Content OP
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And another addition, a Volkspistole. This is one of the "last ditch" people's pistol designs using mostly stamped steel components. Models were produced by Mauser, Walther, and others but this seems to be the most sophisticated design.

Walther-Volkspistole.jpg (168.63 KB, 259 downloads)

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And Mauser did a stamped P38.

Mauser-Volkspistole.jpg (149.99 KB, 231 downloads)

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I got a little carried away, you can see the results HERE wink Comments and corrections welcome!


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Volkspistole Information. The Volkspistole was the result a project started in 1943/44 to to develop a 9mm semi-auto pistol requiring less machine work and raw materials. Both Mauser and Walther submitted prototypes for testing, built around the P-38 magazine. After testing, the entire project was shelved. In early 1945, orders were sent out to produce as many as possible for the Volkssturm. Best guess is that a few hundred to a couple of thousand pistols were produced. The Mauser shown was at Aberdeen Maryland in the 1980s and has since been misplaced. It was the only complete example known. The Walther shown is one of two or three known examples and is currently in the Walther Museum, Germany. Both pistols are considered extremely rare. This info is several years old. More up to date information would be welcome wink


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According to Jon Speed, none of Mauser's "Volkspistolen" were approved or put into production before the end of the war. The Walther "Volkspistolen" was approved for production and an order for 20,000 soon followed. This put an end to Mauser's efforts. At wars end, Walther was still waiting for funds and raw materials before entering production.

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Vern Online Content OP
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Thanks for the update, Don. That explains why they are so rare. Probably the only ones around are the test pieces wink


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Growing up watching WW2 movies of the US solders with their Thompsons and Grease Guns, British with their Stens, Germans with their MP40s, Italians with their Berettas and Russians with their PPD-34s, I thought it would be easy to add some photos to the WW2 Pistol Gallery. I was a bit surprised to find over 40 types of sub-machine guns listed. After a little research, I added them to the Pistol Gallery. It's now called the Small Arms Gallery and I'll be adding additional weapons later wink You can use THIS LINK to take a look.


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Hi Vern,
Great job!

The M1A1 Thompson is mis-identified as a M1928A1.

Also, it shows the Sterling SMG as being produced in 1944. Can anyone confirm this? I was always under the impression it was developed and produced in the 1950's - not WWII.

Thanks again...

Last edited by Denny Gaither; 01/28/2014 06:47 PM.

WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
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Vern Online Content OP
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Hi Denny, Thanks for the post and the info. I'll recheck the Thompson, may have swapped photos wink Sterling produced 120 examples for trials in 1944. Some of these trial samples were used in combat by airborne troops at Arnhem and elsewhere, where it was known as the Patchett submachine gun. The project was on hold until 1947 when these were later renamed as the Sterling Mark I. This info is on Wiki and in several books I have.


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Added rifles to the gallery wink


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Vern: Here is an example of the VG1 Volksgewehr last ditch rifle for the Volkssturm. Is in the current Julia auction. Doubt that it ever made it to production.

VG1 Volksgewehr .jpg (12.68 KB, 126 downloads)
VG1.jpg (11.91 KB, 126 downloads)
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Vern Online Content OP
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Thanks. I'll reformat and include it in the Gallery wink


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Added Assault Rifles to the Gallery.


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Dons - actually, the VG1 did make it into production, albeit on a quite limited basis.

Here's the VG2 made by Spreewerke - cyq code - this is an "a" block gun in the 2k range.

VG2 cyq 2677a Left Side (Small).jpg (40.97 KB, 200 downloads)
VG2 cyq 2677a Right Side (Small).jpg (50.67 KB, 199 downloads)

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Denny: Do you happen to know who produced the VG1. Mauser?

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Dons,

The VG1 was an approved Walther design, but a lot of confusion exists about the manufacturers. As far as I
know, one certainty is that Mauser was NOT one of them. Darrin Weaver lists 18 different manufacturer codes associated with the VG1. Certainly many of these were parts suppliers only.

A few of the larger and more well known of these were:
Walther, of course - "ac"
Ruhrstahl - "avk"
J.P. Sauer & Sohn - "ce"
DWM - "eeo"
Berlin Lübecker Maschinenfabriken "qve"
Waffenwerke Brünn - "swp"

This is an area in which I have little knowledge and welcome anyone to speak up if I have posted bad info.
For anyone interested in this subject, Darrin's book, Desperate Measures is a must have.

Not sure if "Uncle Mel" Smith Jr. will be at the SOS, but if he is, stop and talk with him.
He has forgotten more about these puppies than I will ever know.


WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
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Vern Online Content OP
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Added Light Machine Guns. This covers just about all of the individual small arms. However, the file is getting too big and unwieldy, so I'll be breaking it up by type and putting it in the Reference Gallery shortly wink


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The files are now part of the Reference Gallery and load MUCH faster wink


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Vern: I would like to join Denny in thanking you for all your efforts in creating this Ref. Gallery.

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You're most welcome. I enjoy putting them together and hope collectors find them useful. I just came across an old table of WaffenAmt codes. Like most, it is in maker name order. If I can get it loaded into the computer, I think it would make a good reference sorted by WaffenAmt code. Most people have an item with the code and want to find the maker name, not knowing the name and wanting to find the code wink


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Added the 1910 and 1914 Mausers, and the Gustloff Werk Volkspistole; made a few corrections to the information.


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Changed the photo for the Sterling/Patchette SMG. The photo I originally posted was of a later model. Replaced it with a photo of one of the original 120 made in 1944. One of these (serial number 32) is in a museum in Belgium with photos of it being demonstrated to Belgium resistance fighters in late 1944.


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Added a couple of rare rifles and a Luft M30 Drilling by JP Sauer & Sohn wink


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Hi All, New to this forum and looking for some info. Just purchased a 1938 Luger P 08, not a high end quality but a good shooter. I was told by the dealer that the large blue dot(4 cm) on the left grip was the markings of the Russians when the pistol was captured and logged into their records. It does not have the stamped crossed hammers(?) on the right side of the receiver. Can anyone tell me if this story is full of hot air, confirm the story, or have an alternate story? Thanks very much in advance

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Can you post a photo?


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