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Joined: Oct 2001
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OP
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,024 Likes: 1 |
Though this might provoke some interesting discussion. Funeral Navy
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 634
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Appears to be a typical black grip 1921 Pattern Navy dirk with an updated TR pommel as seen in Wittmann's Navy book on pg. 200. Certainly not a funeral dagger. Updated pommels were common in the Kreigsmarine. Could be the real deal.
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,023 Likes: 31
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,023 Likes: 31 |
lakesidetrader, -please- Show the pics here because otherwise, when when the link is dead, this thread becomes worthless thrash which I think we all don�t want to be.
BTW I do have the same opinion like DONS. But I am no friend of the certain etched inscription /engraved name. They are uncommon, in the etching not even the day of his death is noted and the name engraving seems newly done.
Regards,
wotan, gd.c-b#105
"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 148
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Joined: Mar 2010
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I would appreciate someone with knowledge of the navy rank structure to comment on what appears to be the deceased's rank which appears to be Lt zur See Kapittan. If this man entered the navy in dec '39, made lt. in 41 and died as the c.o. of a u-boat in early '43 that seems to be a pretty fast promotion track. Or, as is all too common, I am misreading what I see. Thanks
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919 Likes: 3
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I think this is an interesting looking piece and should be discussed.
Here are the photos.
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,097 Likes: 99
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,097 Likes: 99 |
A death date engraved on the guy's dagger?
New for me, and with a like new grip, too.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 254
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Joined: Mar 2012
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So lets see. We have a 1921 configuration of a black grip with a rope pattern scabbard. Assumption is that this is a 1919 model updated to a 1921 configuration with the addition of the scabbard. Then in 1938 an eagle pommel was added to conform with the final 3R configuration. That is a long time and still have a pristine grip and and scabbard. Seems hard to believe to me. However, could be a made up piece using older parts as a remembrance item for the family of the the deceased. The font on the dagger is relatively modern pattern. Does it look engraved or laser etched to you guys? IMO, I would approach with healthy skepticism before committing too many bucks.
Wanted: German Naval Edged Weapons and Related Accouterments
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 407 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 407 Likes: 1 |
So lets see. We have a 1921 configuration of a black grip with a rope pattern scabbard. Assumption is that this is a 1919 model updated to a 1921 configuration with the addition of the scabbard. Then in 1938 an eagle pommel was added to conform with the final 3R configuration. That is a long time and still have a pristine grip and and scabbard. Seems hard to believe to me. However, could be a made up piece using older parts as a remembrance item for the family of the the deceased. The font on the dagger is relatively modern pattern. Does it look engraved or laser etched to you guys? IMO, I would approach with healthy skepticism before committing too many bucks. ... basically I agree with Rick. Best; Hermann
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 634
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Joined: Oct 2000
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If you go to the auction site and bring up the magnified images, this dirk is certainly not in pristine condition. It does show appropriate wear and age throughout. Granted, it is in fine condition, but I've seen better conditioned Navy daggers offered on the big dealers sites. I'm not fully convinced however regarding the blade dedication.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Joined: Nov 2002
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In my opinion this is a modern abomination.
The pommel is unlike any original (upgrade or otherwise). The scabbard does not look right and the rings are too thin as seen on a lot of repos. The etch is a modern font and appears to be done with a photo/ laser procedure. Finally, if however unlikely a funeral dagger was put together then contemporary parts would almost certainly be used.
I'm surprised anyone even contemplates the possibility of this being anything but junk.
War is when your government tells you who the enemy is.
Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Fascinating�������.. Not that I am disagreeing with the other very skeptical opinions, I am wondering how many might be in circulation? Because it seems that there could be more than one "Funeral Dagger" if the white gripped one pictured complete with an assortment of medals is included ??  Fred Another "Funeral Dagger" ?
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Joined: Oct 2006
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... obviously there were several funerals. ;-))
Last edited by Flyingdutchman; 12/29/2013 11:56 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Nice one Fred. 
War is when your government tells you who the enemy is.
Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 148
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 148 |
Well, it seems I did read the inscription wrong. The dagger at auction seems to be the same one as listed in the lower part of the description by johnson without the medals and the described white gripped 2nd KM in hammered scabbard. Strange.
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2 totally different daggers attributed to the same individual. Is this within the realm of possibility ? Could be.
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Well, someone liked it to the tune of $1900 plus commission. I saw it at the Las Vegas Antique Arms Show. It looked to me to be a nice accumulation of parts. Other opinions may differ.
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Joined: Aug 2001
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$500 in medals, and a $9500 dagger, who is fooling who on this one??
robert grant
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